Yuuki-Cha "Official" Japanese tea topic


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Re: Yuuki-Cha "Official" Japanese tea topic

Postby Chip » Apr 10th, '13, 23:18

I wish I could be the bearer of good news in regards to Yuuki-Cha ... however not today. I have been asked by a member of TeaChat to post some information on a recent "problem" they had with Dan of Yuuki-Cha. In the following post, I will simply present the evidence that the member presented to me which consists of direct quotes from Dan via email to the member. I will offer commentary in a separate post.

The member is in very good standing on TeaChat, and I consider his/her word as very reputable. Further, I will note, that the member has been a customer of Yuuki-Cha and has often posted very favorably about the company and their teas. For now the member simply wishes to remain somewhat anon, however the member will likely post at some point in the near future.

As always, I welcome a direct contact to me from Dan should he wish to dispute the facts or for whatever reason. Unfortunately each overture I have made has been answered with silence.

Again,
Chip
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Re: Yuuki-Cha "Official" Japanese tea topic

Postby Chip » Apr 10th, '13, 23:19

Mod hat still on ...

I have received a message from a member who at this point remains anon on this subject on the actual forum. He will post at some point in the future, but he does want members to know of the threats to members. Thus I have offered to assist.

This member received a series of emails from Dan of Yuuki-Cha. Although nobody posted negatively about Yuuki-Cha in the "Radiation topic" (which makes this even more odd) ... this is in response to the youtube video linked by another member who removed the link ... which I have reposted due to its relevence to the topic.

TeaChat Member wrote:Please feel free to mention me behind the scenes. I just don't want it in a place where Dan can see it at the moment. But I want to make sure this doesn't happen to others.


The first quote from Dan appears to reference the Radiation topic but also a post in another topic where the member posted that he did not care for one of Yuuki-Cha's higher end sencha.

Dan of Yuuki-Cha wrote:I’m emailing you about order ...

Your order has been flagged because you have been identified as being involved in a forum topic intended to damage the reputation of us and our growers on Adagio’s tea companies teachat forum topic entitled “Radiation and Tea in Japan”.

We would like to confirm with you why you would be involved in such distasteful damaging content about us and the growers, and at the same time continue to order from our growers through our website? Also, could you please confirm on page 10 of the topic entitled “Radiation and Tea in Japan” on Adagio’s tea companies teachat forum why you have posted a link to a video also intending to damage the reputation of us, but most disgustingly the grower?


Further from Dan of Yuuki-Cha ...

You have no right to get involved in ours, or any other companies business, on the internet, so please refrain from doing such a thing. It’s totally unacceptable.

Please remove the link and remove the post, and also remove any other posts in any other defaming topics on that forum if you would like to continue ordering from our growers through our website.

Please strongly note, we will not knowingly serve anybody who we can identify as posting in such damaging forum topics or videos. Anybody that does, will not purchase teas from our growers through our website, and you can email anybody else you know on that forum or in that video to let them know also. Those that remain will ultimately put themselves at risk of legal action.
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Re: Yuuki-Cha "Official" Japanese tea topic

Postby Chip » Apr 11th, '13, 00:10

Mod hat off ... personal commentary ...

Regarding this recent incident, this actually falls in line with their newly listed policies. But is it right ... can a vendor force another member to remove a post on TeaChat using threats ... intimidation? Has our freedom of speech been attacked, diminished?

The member in question has always posted very positively regarding Yuuki-Cha, except a post about a tea that I guess did not impress him. All he did in the radiation topic was post a link to the youtube video. All responses were actually very pro Yuuki-Cha including my post.

However it would appear that anything short of 100% loyalty could result in having your order "flagged" and potentially losing buying privileges from Yuuki-Cha. This is a very real threat. Freedom of speech will not be tolerated unless it is a positive endorsement?

And a threat of legal action. Whoa, what???!!!??? Their terms and Conditions say they can if you are a customer ... but is this a viable threat that posters need to be concerned about?

So, seemingly Dan's new strategy is to attempt to intimidate and threaten anyone who posts negatively about Yuuki-Cha and/or its products.

I have decided to approach the ownership of TeaChat for various reasons, but also to seek their council. I also feel they need to know of this threat to members' freedom of speech on their forum.

Historically, free speech has reigned supreme on TeaChat and this has led to overwhelmingly positive posting ... but there have been exceptions. If I have felt that someone was posting negatively about a vendor in a non truthful manner, I would step in on the vendor's behalf.

However, this new threat from Yuuki-Cha seems counterproductive as it will only serve to alienate more people.

However, I for one will not be intimidated ... and I will be doing everything within my resources to answer and/or find the right answers to any concerns members may have.
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Re: Yuuki-Cha "Official" Japanese tea topic

Postby Poohblah » Apr 11th, '13, 02:54

For the record I would like to note that the participants in this thread came to the conclusion that the video in question is highly suspect and probably fraudulent.

To summarize, a TC member posted a video to this thread because it concerned radiation in YC tea, then after some discussion the video was deemed not to be trustworthy, and now the member is being accused of libel.

I take no stake in the matter but I thought that other members of TC who might be viewing this thread would appreciate some background in order to understand what is going on. I had to read through the thread again and ask to see the video before I knew what had happened. I just want to save other readers the trouble of going through these steps.
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Re: Yuuki-Cha "Official" Japanese tea topic

Postby Alex » Apr 11th, '13, 03:00

Chip has been incredibly good with this issue for me. I didn't want to post up just yet as two family members were in ill health and I lost one last night (94 years old) but feel its also fair to Chip that this comes out of someone else's mouth for once.

These emails were sent to me. Its been resolved and I have no outstanding orders with Dan. He has returned my money to me following me editing my post. My order was *pending* until the post was deleted.

I posted the link to see the video be disputed, I meant no harm to yuuki-cha and would never do anything intentionally to harm someones business.


I will not be buying or mentioning anything about yuuki-cha.com again. (They were my only tea vendor which I bought from constantly, and had years of great tea and quick service from)


-Alex
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Re: Yuuki-Cha "Official" Japanese tea topic

Postby sherubtse » Apr 11th, '13, 07:21

Thank you very much Alex for coming forward with this! :D

I am very sorry to hear about your loss, and the ill-health of your family members. My best wishes are with you.

I am quite shocked with what has happened to Alex. Unbelievable! :shock:

As I said in my post in this thread back on Nov. 26, "Glad that I have never ordered from such an outfit."

Best wishes,
sherubtse
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Re: Yuuki-Cha "Official" Japanese tea topic

Postby sherubtse » Apr 11th, '13, 07:25

Chip wrote:However, this new threat from Yuuki-Cha seems counterproductive as it will only serve to alienate more people.


Well, let's hope so! Maybe then the owner will realise how much harm he is doing to his company with such tactics.

Best wishes,
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Re: Yuuki-Cha "Official" Japanese tea topic

Postby JRS22 » Apr 11th, '13, 10:09

Maybe we should have a discussion about liability in a separate thread as this is a real hazard of posting opinions on the internet. This vendor chose to issue a warning but another vendor could bring suit against a poster without prior notice.
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Re: Yuuki-Cha "Official" Japanese tea topic

Postby Devoted135 » Apr 11th, '13, 10:19

JRS22 wrote:Maybe we should have a discussion about liability in a separate thread as this is a real hazard of posting opinions on the internet. This vendor chose to issue a warning but another vendor could bring suit against a poster without prior notice.


Seconded. Do we have any tea-addicted lawyers who can advise on this issue?
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Re: Yuuki-Cha "Official" Japanese tea topic

Postby Chip » Apr 11th, '13, 11:17

Devoted135 wrote:
JRS22 wrote:Maybe we should have a discussion about liability in a separate thread as this is a real hazard of posting opinions on the internet. This vendor chose to issue a warning but another vendor could bring suit against a poster without prior notice.


Seconded. Do we have any tea-addicted lawyers who can advise on this issue?

I am seeking further wisdom and knowledge beyond my experience on this matter, but it is my understanding that opinions posted are not generally considered to be libel as they are just that, opinions.

Then there are malicious opinions or opinions not based upon actual experience ... this could be cause for concern (and if I suspect this is the case, I will often intervene on vendors' behalf). But as long as you are posting regarding your actual experiences and you are posting opinions, good luck for any vendor attempting legal action. This is not to say that a company could not try to sue, but they would not be successful. It would also be a publicity nightmare, IMHO. Something Yuuki-Cha does not need.

Also, posting on the forum events claimed to be fact that are indeed not fact, this is dangerous territory (again, if I suspect this is occuring I will intervene).

So, using "IMHO" and posting from experience when discussing a vendor is the best policy. And posting truthfully!

TeaChat is not the place for grinding axes. Use some common sense. Sharing actual experiences with others is acceptable behavior.

Nevertheless, I will endeavor to post this as a seperate topic when I have more info from those with experience in this realm.
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Re: Yuuki-Cha "Official" Japanese tea topic

Postby Stentor » Apr 11th, '13, 11:30

I'm pretty sure you don't have to fear legal consequences at all. Just stay within the limits of reason.
Regardless of which country's laws would apply in such a case, freedom of speech will almost certainly be an accepted right and that right should almost always outweigh a company's rights unless you really obviously cross the line. Of course you can say that you think a product is "terrible", "the worst you ever had" - why not? There's a lot that you can say. Just don't compare the product to dog's excrement or whatever.
I am really not worried about legal consequences in that regard.
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Re: Yuuki-Cha "Official" Japanese tea topic

Postby NPE » Apr 11th, '13, 12:13

I have to admit that I was quite flabbergasted when I read the excerpts from the emails - especially as the consensus of this topic in question was to defend this very vendor rather than to attack, if I remember correctly.

Everyone (even me! :shock: ) will receive some form of criticism at one point or another. The good thing of negative feedback is you can look at it from a fresh point of view and use it as a starting point for improved performance. Obviously, this is not the approach Dan takes here. I can only say that if I would ever throw my toys out of the pram - so to speak - at my work, then I would not be gainfully employed for much longer. I guess this is the advantage of being your own boss: you cannot be sacked :lol:

One can openly accuse the current President of the United States of America to have been born outside the US and therefore to have gained his position illegally without any fear of reprisals but you are not allowed to mention in a specific forum that you do not like a particular tea from a particular vendor just because that vendor only like 100%+ positive reviews?!?!? Mind boggling!

I, for one, will make a point of never ordering from Yuuki-Cha, no matter how seductive the offers on their website might be.
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Re: Yuuki-Cha "Official" Japanese tea topic

Postby GreenwoodStudio » Apr 11th, '13, 12:39

I wish to be added to the list of "flagged" (blacklisted) customers, thank you.
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Re: Yuuki-Cha "Official" Japanese tea topic

Postby edkrueger » Apr 11th, '13, 12:44

I'm not a lawyer, but those threats of "legal ramifications" that posters have been threatened with are absolute nonsense.

It is odd that they are trying to blacklist people just for responding to this topic, or being on this forum. Especially considering no one, to the best of my knowledge, said that they believe that this vendor's tea (or any Japanese tea) is contaminated.
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Re: Yuuki-Cha "Official" Japanese tea topic

Postby Chip » Apr 11th, '13, 16:18

... talking to the forum owners at Adagio.com ...
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