Mixing unboiled water with boiled for right temperature?


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Mixing unboiled water with boiled for right temperature?

Postby Hmm » Aug 15th, '13, 14:49

Is there anything wrong with this technique?

I was also under the assumption that one should never boil they same water twice because it would lose a lot of air?
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Re: Mixing unboiled water with boiled for right temperature?

Postby Chip » Aug 15th, '13, 15:03

I usually just pour the water from the kettle to a "cooling device" such as a pitcher (Yuzamashi) which lowers the temp by around 20 or more degrees F within 10-30 seconds.

If I want to go cooler, I can then pour into my cup(s) lowering the temp quickly to 160* F or less. For almost all greens this does the job very well.

I personally have never poured cooler water in since I want to keep using the boiled water in the kettle for subsequent steeps.

I also avoid reboiling the same water, but you will likely get different explanations on why or why not to do so.
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Re: Mixing unboiled water with boiled for right temperature?

Postby Hmm » Aug 15th, '13, 18:03

Chip wrote:I usually just pour the water from the kettle to a "cooling device" such as a pitcher (Yuzamashi) which lowers the temp by around 20 or more degrees F within 10-30 seconds.

If I want to go cooler, I can then pour into my cup(s) lowering the temp quickly to 160* F or less. For almost all greens this does the job very well.

I personally have never poured cooler water in since I want to keep using the boiled water in the kettle for subsequent steeps.

I also avoid reboiling the same water, but you will likely get different explanations on why or why not to do so.


Hi.

Is there a reason why you would rather pour the water into different cups in order to cool the water, than mix with cool water? Is it simply ritual, or do you think it affects the taste?

If you leave water in the kettle, won't it be too cool to use? Do you eventually just dump out that water? Sometimes I just use that cooled down boiled water and mix it with freshly boiled water.

What are the other reasons for not reboiling water?
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Re: Mixing unboiled water with boiled for right temperature?

Postby hobnob » Aug 16th, '13, 06:32

I end up boiling water twice most of the time but I always add 'fresh' water to the kettle. Hopefully that would go some way towards oxygenating the water I had boiled earlier.
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Re: Mixing unboiled water with boiled for right temperature?

Postby Chip » Aug 18th, '13, 13:21

Hmm wrote:
Chip wrote:I usually just pour the water from the kettle to a "cooling device" such as a pitcher (Yuzamashi) which lowers the temp by around 20 or more degrees F within 10-30 seconds.

If I want to go cooler, I can then pour into my cup(s) lowering the temp quickly to 160* F or less. For almost all greens this does the job very well.

I personally have never poured cooler water in since I want to keep using the boiled water in the kettle for subsequent steeps.

I also avoid reboiling the same water, but you will likely get different explanations on why or why not to do so.


Hi.

Is there a reason why you would rather pour the water into different cups in order to cool the water, than mix with cool water? Is it simply ritual, or do you think it affects the taste?

If you leave water in the kettle, won't it be too cool to use? Do you eventually just dump out that water? Sometimes I just use that cooled down boiled water and mix it with freshly boiled water.

What are the other reasons for not reboiling water?

Pouring the boiled water into "cooling vessels" be they cups or Yuzamashi or whatever (I use a creamer at my mom's which works as well as my more traditional wares) is a more "controlled descent" and is a very common method in various tea culture countries. So, while ritual plays a part, it also works extremely well! Ritual is not really a fair word, habitually following this way of doing things helps to enable a degree of enhanced skill over time.

To me, it seems that pouring cooler water into a kettle of boiled water is lacking control ... and is counter productive in that I am able to use the water in the kettle w/o reboiling for usually at least 5 steeps for green tea.

For green tea, I never have to "dump" until the very end of a session. A good kettle will retain heat for a while whether it is an iron kettle or a stainless steel electric kettle.
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Re: Mixing unboiled water with boiled for right temperature?

Postby Hmm » Aug 19th, '13, 00:01

Hmm... I don't generally mind with ritual. But I only do everything "properly" when I have all the equipment with me. Sometimes I just have my "minimalist" kit with me, which is just a gaiwan, a small glass pitcher made for tea, and a mug, and a strainer.

When I am using only my minimalist kit, pouring water from mug drips water all over the place, making it a bit messy. Therefore I developed the short cut of just mixing in some cool water, or cooled down boiled water, etc.

A yuzamashi does look nice, but I normally only brew Chinese teas, and have only Chinese equipment, so I am not sure it would match the rest of my equipment.

I wouldn't mind using a creamer, and in fact seen some nice ones in antique stores, when I was travelling and was thinking of buying one when I didn't have stuff to make tea, but was worried with all the hot water being poured, that the ceramic might crack. Do you ever worry about that?

Thanks.
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Re: Mixing unboiled water with boiled for right temperature?

Postby Evan Draper » Aug 19th, '13, 14:51

Chip wrote:To me, it seems that pouring cooler water into a kettle of boiled water is lacking control ...

Here's a fun blog post to fix that:
http://www.teageek.net/blog/2009/09/hotcoldperfect/

I don't mind reboiling, but if I want cooler water I find it easier to turn the kettle off before the water gets too hot in the first place. I wouldn't worry about your boiling method too much. I have never found any convincing corroboration of any of these "deoxygenation" worries.
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Re: Mixing unboiled water with boiled for right temperature?

Postby Muadeeb » Aug 19th, '13, 15:17

Evan Draper wrote:Here's a fun blog post to fix that:
http://www.teageek.net/blog/2009/09/hotcoldperfect/


Looks like a fun blog indeed, but I don't know if I can trust a guy named Coffey. :lol:
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Re: Mixing unboiled water with boiled for right temperature?

Postby Evan Draper » Aug 19th, '13, 15:43

Muadeeb wrote:Looks like a fun blog indeed, but I don't know if I can trust a guy named Coffey. :lol:

It's OK, he was adopted.
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Re: Mixing unboiled water with boiled for right temperature?

Postby teaisme » Aug 19th, '13, 16:41

Hmm wrote:But I only do everything "properly" when I have all the equipment with me. Sometimes I just have my "minimalist" kit with me, which is just a gaiwan, a small glass pitcher made for tea, and a mug, and a strainer.


But do you really know what is properly? I often find what I think is right or the only way turns out to be far from set in stone. Try many different ways more thenjust a couple times. I find it easier to learn well from personal experiences. When I hear minimalist I think of just a kettle + bowl/cup for hot tea. Drink well :)
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Re: Mixing unboiled water with boiled for right temperature?

Postby kikula » Aug 19th, '13, 21:43

1. Make a satisfying bowl of tea

2. Lay the charcoal so that the water boils efficiently

3. Provide a sense of warmth in the winter and coolness in the summer

4. Arrange the flowers as though they were in the field

5. Be ready ahead of time

6. Be prepared in case it should rain

7. Act with utmost consideration towards your guests.

And there you have it.
Sen Rikyu

That's a little complicated, so even better:

The Way of Tea is naught but this:

first you boil water,

then you make the tea and drink it.


Ibid
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Re: Mixing unboiled water with boiled for right temperature?

Postby Hmm » Aug 20th, '13, 16:56

teaisme wrote:
But do you really know what is properly? I often find what I think is right or the only way turns out to be far from set in stone. Try many different ways more thenjust a couple times. I find it easier to learn well from personal experiences. When I hear minimalist I think of just a kettle + bowl/cup for hot tea. Drink well :)


Hah... hence the the quotation marks around "properly". I simply try to emulate what was shown to me whenever I buy tea in China, and the proprietor gets some young lady to brew the tea to taste.

While in Harbin, I do remember the young lady who was still in training to learn how to do proper gongfu cha, pouring a little cool water into the hot water. Perhaps it's a northern barbarian thing where they don't know how to make tea properly or something haha...

Normally if I have time, I just let the water cool to the right temperature, but lately started to add some cool water to get the right temperature since I don't have to worry about getting sick from unboiled water.

As to a minimalist kit. It's actually just a gaiwan and a kettle for me. If I don't have a gaiwan, then I pretty much refuse to brew tea, and instead try to make coffee instead.
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