Zhongguo Yixing Seal


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Zhongguo Yixing Seal

Postby wert » Oct 28th, '13, 20:12

I am hoping someone can help me in determining this seal and the period it is used? I had been told it is factory-1, but I am not sure.
se1.jpg
Seal 1
se1.jpg (15.06 KiB) Viewed 774 times


[EDIT]Since we are at it, let do a few more.
se2.jpg
Seal 2
se2.jpg (2.42 KiB) Viewed 771 times


The 6 character meng chen seal should be before the 80s, right?
se3.jpg
Seal 3
se3.jpg (20.27 KiB) Viewed 771 times
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Re: Zhongguo Yixing Seal

Postby chrl42 » Oct 28th, '13, 22:54

It's possible to identify a 6-letter seal, but not possible for 4-letter (ZGYX). 6-letters are slightly more sought-after than genuine 4-letter (6~70s). Clay and way of making are more important when doing 4-letter.

#2 is not early-ZGYX at least, could be later products, or imitations
#3 doens't look genuine, either :?

Only my thoughts. :)
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Re: Zhongguo Yixing Seal

Postby wert » Oct 29th, '13, 04:25

I see....the ZGYXs looks different from my own and was claimed to be from an earlier period. The seal itself cannot rule out or confirmed is factory 1 or not, correct?

Thanks so much for your input!
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Re: Zhongguo Yixing Seal

Postby Teaism » Oct 29th, '13, 10:36

Nowadays the seal don't really mean anything. They can be scanned, and reproduced to seal into new teapots. Safer way to authenticate is to look at the clay and style of different period. But that is a big topic even some experts got fooled. It is even harder to tell especially via photos. At most some expert can only guess but their guess is as good as yours and mine.
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Re: Zhongguo Yixing Seal

Postby chrl42 » Oct 29th, '13, 22:41

Teaism wrote:Nowadays the seal don't really mean anything. They can be scanned, and reproduced to seal into new teapots. Safer way to authenticate is to look at the clay and style of different period. But that is a big topic even some experts got fooled. It is even harder to tell especially via photos. At most some expert can only guess but their guess is as good as yours and mine.

Easier than that. If everything is uncertain and abstract, then there would be no one dares to publish books or sell old pots.

For example, Chinese-based websites (Yixing) forever ban sellers who sell fake pots :)
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Re: Zhongguo Yixing Seal

Postby chrl42 » Oct 29th, '13, 22:52

wert wrote:I see....the ZGYXs looks different from my own and was claimed to be from an earlier period. The seal itself cannot rule out or confirmed is factory 1 or not, correct?

Thanks so much for your input!

Point is, so many fake 'ZGYX seals' can pass the seal test, but #2 already didn't. After passing it, then there should be 'clay test', 'firing test' and 'method of making' tests left.. :o

6-letters on the other hand, 90% of fake seals won't pass the seal test in the first place.
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Re: Zhongguo Yixing Seal

Postby wyardley » Oct 29th, '13, 23:24

Easier than that. If everything is uncertain and abstract, then there would be no one dares to publish books or sell old pots.

http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2013/china-art-fraud/
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Re: Zhongguo Yixing Seal

Postby chrl42 » Oct 29th, '13, 23:45

wyardley wrote:
Easier than that. If everything is uncertain and abstract, then there would be no one dares to publish books or sell old pots.

http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2013/china-art-fraud/

cannot be loaded, nytimes often doesn't work in China.

Looks like you don't understand my line, too. Too bad some of pots you posted in Show-your-Yixing thread were awesome ones. Too bad you don't understand the beauty behind them (Good pot is only good when it meets the right owner) :wink:



Funny thing is this,
It's been 30 years since Chinese and Taiwanese started to study hard on Yixing teapots & fake ones. Time has changed, people have been collecting facts and there have been strong unities and markets appeared. Crazy skyrocketted Yixing price appeared since then.

But then, there are someone who ignore that premise, internet discussions, why are they needed, then? :roll:
Last edited by chrl42 on Oct 30th, '13, 00:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Zhongguo Yixing Seal

Postby wert » Oct 30th, '13, 00:03

chrl42 wrote:
wert wrote:I see....the ZGYXs looks different from my own and was claimed to be from an earlier period. The seal itself cannot rule out or confirmed is factory 1 or not, correct?

Thanks so much for your input!

Point is, so many fake 'ZGYX seals' can pass the seal test, but #2 already didn't. After passing it, then there should be 'clay test', 'firing test' and 'method of making' tests left.. :o

6-letters on the other hand, 90% of fake seals won't pass the seal test in the first place.

I see...so the seal test is much more useful for the 6 characters. Those seals are on the opening posts isn't mine. Seal 1 belongs to my friend. I have 1-2 pots with 6 letter seals. Maybe showing them would be more useful as an object lesson?

I don't have much hope for this one, it doesn't feels right with my limited experience.
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IMG945.jpg
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IMG944.jpg
The seal is very faint...
IMG944.jpg (73.62 KiB) Viewed 616 times
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Re: Zhongguo Yixing Seal

Postby wert » Oct 30th, '13, 00:06

more pictures...can upload more if needed.
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IMG949.jpg
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IMG947.jpg
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Re: Zhongguo Yixing Seal

Postby chrl42 » Oct 30th, '13, 00:39

To wert,

荆溪南孟臣製, Hei-Tie-Sha, Ge-Zui (pigeon-beak) Shui Ping, is how it's called. They are mostly 8-cup (about 150~70c) size, if there are other ones, let me know.

Ge-Zui SPs come with 18-spout-hole, (yours I see only 10), clay also doesn't look brown-ish F1 Hei Tie Sha, way of making (although your pics lack clearness) not either. Factory-1 had those SPs during 5~60s, very rare these days. They can surpass 1,000-usd for rarity I think (rare clay as well)

That's all I can say...the seal does look similar tho...

Good luck :)
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Re: Zhongguo Yixing Seal

Postby TIM » Oct 30th, '13, 01:14

chrl42 wrote:To wert,

荆溪南孟臣製, Hei-Tie-Sha, Ge-Zui (pigeon-beak) Shui Ping, is how it's called. They are mostly 8-cup (about 150~70c) size, if there are other ones, let me know.

Ge-Zui SPs come with 18-spout-hole, (yours I see only 10), clay also doesn't look brown-ish F1 Hei Tie Sha, way of making (although your pics lack clearness) not either. Factory-1 had those SPs during 5~60s, very rare these days. They can surpass 1,000-usd for rarity I think (rare clay as well)

That's all I can say...the seal does look similar tho...

Good luck :)


Hi Chris, do you think this is a SP style?
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Re: Zhongguo Yixing Seal

Postby Teaism » Oct 30th, '13, 01:19

chrl42 wrote:
Teaism wrote:Nowadays the seal don't really mean anything. They can be scanned, and reproduced to seal into new teapots. Safer way to authenticate is to look at the clay and style of different period. But that is a big topic even some experts got fooled. It is even harder to tell especially via photos. At most some expert can only guess but their guess is as good as yours and mine.

Easier than that. If everything is uncertain and abstract, then there would be no one dares to publish books or sell old pots.

For example, Chinese-based websites (Yixing) forever ban sellers who sell fake pots :)



Forum discussion is really good but the level of understanding and sharing is also important. We are all limited in our knowledge due to the fact that Yixing pots publications are not easily accessible and the documentations on them are very limited. Many people learn about them informally. Some learn the right and some learn the wrong stuff. Sometimes the facts or fiction is determined by the loud majorities which eventually lead into "monkey see monkey do situation". The loud and respected ones may not be right all the times. :shock:

So to go forward, as in tea, to pursue teapots, the most important anyone could learn is to go slow, look around more and cultivate a careful attitute before jumping into anything. This is a long learning process and for me after many decades in tea and teapots, I still got it wrong many many times even in tea and teapots, but still have to move forward to learn from mistakes. But luckily for me, I still got a lot of experts and old timers to verify and guide me along the way...so I am making lesser and lesser mistakes.

Most of the time, if it is too good to be true, it is definately isn't, we are not going to get real diamond at the price of zirconia. Not every clear crystal that sparkle is diamond. :)

Hmmm...hope I didnt get OT. Cheers! :D
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Re: Zhongguo Yixing Seal

Postby chrl42 » Oct 30th, '13, 01:38

Teaism wrote:
chrl42 wrote:
Teaism wrote:Nowadays the seal don't really mean anything. They can be scanned, and reproduced to seal into new teapots. Safer way to authenticate is to look at the clay and style of different period. But that is a big topic even some experts got fooled. It is even harder to tell especially via photos. At most some expert can only guess but their guess is as good as yours and mine.

Easier than that. If everything is uncertain and abstract, then there would be no one dares to publish books or sell old pots.

For example, Chinese-based websites (Yixing) forever ban sellers who sell fake pots :)



Forum discussion is really good but the level of understanding and sharing is also important. We are all limited in our knowledge due to the fact that Yixing pots publications are not easily accessible and the documentations on them are very limited. Many people learn about them informally. Some learn the right and some learn the wrong stuff. Sometimes the facts or fiction is determined by the loud majorities which eventually lead into "monkey see monkey do situation". The loud and respected ones may not be right all the times. :shock:

So to go forward, as in tea, to pursue teapots, the most important anyone could learn is to go slow, look around more and cultivate a careful attitute before jumping into anything. This is a long learning process and for me after many decades in tea and teapots, I still got it wrong many many times even in tea and teapots, but still have to move forward to learn from mistakes. But luckily for me, I still got a lot of experts and old timers to verify and guide me along the way...so I am making lesser and lesser mistakes.

Most of the time, if it is too good to be true, it is definately isn't, we are not going to get real diamond at the price of zirconia. Not every clear crystal that sparkle is diamond. :)

Hmmm...hope I didnt get OT. Cheers! :D

Yes, and the quantity of high-qualiy Yixing teapots are being reduced super-rapidly. I don't wanna sound like those who 'slowed' on purchasing Beijing apartments and cried 5 years later :mrgreen:
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Re: Zhongguo Yixing Seal

Postby chrl42 » Oct 30th, '13, 01:40

TIM wrote:
chrl42 wrote:To wert,

荆溪南孟臣製, Hei-Tie-Sha, Ge-Zui (pigeon-beak) Shui Ping, is how it's called. They are mostly 8-cup (about 150~70c) size, if there are other ones, let me know.

Ge-Zui SPs come with 18-spout-hole, (yours I see only 10), clay also doesn't look brown-ish F1 Hei Tie Sha, way of making (although your pics lack clearness) not either. Factory-1 had those SPs during 5~60s, very rare these days. They can surpass 1,000-usd for rarity I think (rare clay as well)

That's all I can say...the seal does look similar tho...

Good luck :)


Hi Chris, do you think this is a SP style?

What do you mean? They ARE called Gezui Shuiping if I got your question right.
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