Gong Fu Question


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Gong Fu Question

Postby Noonie » Nov 7th, '13, 21:29

Since I started drinking loose leaf, 2 years now, I've been brewing "western" style...one tsp of tea (TGY, Wuyi, etc) in a yixing or gaiwan then poured into a medium sized tea cup (175ml or so). This has been fine, though I recently got some high mountain oolong and didn't like it initially. I used a tsp, brewed 3:30 and found it weak. So today I used twice as much leaf and brewed 50s...it was way better.

What I'm wondering though, is why when I double the leaf, but redipuce my brew time so much is the tea stronger? I'm not good with understanding this sort of thing...

Also, what if I used one tsp and brewed longer than 3:30, would it ever taste as nice as twice the leaf and shorter brew time...if not, why?

Thanks so much!
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Re: Gong Fu Question

Postby wyardley » Nov 8th, '13, 02:59

Noonie wrote:Also, what if I used one tsp and brewed longer than 3:30, would it ever taste as nice as twice the leaf and shorter brew time...if not, why?

I think a few reasons; one is that the water's temperature will drop over time, and another is that I think the tea will extract differently over time (that is, the tastes that come out in later infusions when doing multiple shorter brews will be mixed in). With the right combination of parameters, you can get the same strength, but not necessarily the same taste.

I think it takes a while to figure out what works best for a particular tea and for your personal taste.
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Re: Gong Fu Question

Postby Teaism » Nov 8th, '13, 03:47

Typical traditional Chazhou style of gong fu tea brewing technique require maximum full tea leaves in teapot. The tea is flash brew. For Wuyi tea brew in this style normally we appreciate only 3 brews or sometimes 4. So the idea is to pace all the best in 3 solid brew. The skill to truly control aroma, flavor, body etc of the tea in these 3 brews takes decades to master.
Well this is only one of the traditional style and of course you are free to explore what works best for you.
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Re: Gong Fu Question

Postby betta » Nov 9th, '13, 11:45

What's the color of the the TGY or taiwanese Oolong after those steeping time and what water temperature you use?
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Re: Gong Fu Question

Postby MIKE_B » Nov 9th, '13, 17:52

I've noticed that with a lot of teas the longer the brew the more bitter (in a bad way) it can become. For me, gongfu style brewing is way to get the strong flavorful cup that I enjoy without harsh bitterness.
Also one long brew with less leaf and they are spent in one go usually. Gongfu allows you to experience how the cup evolves over several steepings.
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Gong Fu Question

Postby mcrdotcom » Nov 11th, '13, 05:03

I think western brewing is fine for a nice big mug of tea! But a TGY brewed for 2-3minutes in a tea pot is nothing compared to it brewed for 5-10 seconds in a small yixing/Gaiwan! The mouth feel (for me anyway) is worse, the bad flavour leeches in, the complexity is lost because you have everything muddled into one ... I usually brew lesser quality oolong that way, just to satisfy my need for a large mug but if I want to sit down and taste the tea properly and truly enjoy it, needs to be gongfu!

I think the short steeps bring out the complex flavour of the tea gradually, giving you a number of different experiences from one portion of leaf! Also, the way the tea interacts with your body varies from steep to steep.... Most of the caffeine comes out in the early steeps, which is invigorating... If you get 10 steeps out of it then the second 5 will be different... So I think it makes tea tasting more intriguing and fun if you do it gongfu style.

But if in studying I usually just lob some leaves into a mug or class and bring a jug of hot water to top up! Grandpa style is very convenient for teas that don't get too bitter over time :)
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Re: Gong Fu Question

Postby Teaism » Nov 11th, '13, 10:10

Yes agree with u that are many ways to brew them and no one way is truly right or wrong. I have a long meeting today and I threw a few leaves of Yancha into a large mug of hot water and sip on it throughout the meeting. It is as nice and enjoyable as brewing them in the complex Chaozhou style. :D
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Re: Gong Fu Question

Postby chrl42 » Nov 19th, '13, 04:57

Noonie wrote:Also, what if I used one tsp and brewed longer than 3:30, would it ever taste as nice as twice the leaf and shorter brew time...if not, why?

Thanks so much!

The traditional Korean style of drinking alcohol (or even tea) is using a relatively large bowl.

But Chinese tradition of drinking alcohol and tea (Gongfu) has been using a mini cup (old document written in 18c. indicates how Park (famous Korean scholar) was laughed at cos he used a large bowl drinking in a bar of Beijing).

Chinese beverages (Oolong and Baijiu) have a characteristic of being stonrg and aromatic..in order to enjoy in best condition..they have been using mini cups drinking them. Different beverages have different shapes to drink (like white wine glass is different from red wine's, Espresso cup is different from Americano's)

Yixing teapot (Gongfu can never be apart from Yixing) was very huge at first time and was strictly for green tea...the size of Yixing had become smaller over time..and super-small by 19c. those mini pots were mostly for Gongfu ceremony (Oolong-Zhuni-mini porcelain cup)

They thought small pot and cup could preserve tea's aroma better and 1950's Chaozhou Bible wrote this formula....small, wide and thin....this formula is directed to teapot and teacup...oops the topic has turned to Yixing teapot... :mrgreen: aplogies...
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Re: Gong Fu Question

Postby betta » Nov 23rd, '13, 06:47

chrl42 wrote:They thought small pot and cup could preserve tea's aroma better and 1950's Chaozhou Bible wrote this formula....small, wide and thin....this formula is directed to teapot and teacup...oops the topic has turned to Yixing teapot... :mrgreen: aplogies...


Chrl, you should be the missionary for that Chaozhou bible :mrgreen: .
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Re: Gong Fu Question

Postby chrl42 » Nov 23rd, '13, 08:31

betta wrote:
chrl42 wrote:They thought small pot and cup could preserve tea's aroma better and 1950's Chaozhou Bible wrote this formula....small, wide and thin....this formula is directed to teapot and teacup...oops the topic has turned to Yixing teapot... :mrgreen: aplogies...


Chrl, you should be the missionary for that Chaozhou bible :mrgreen: .

I heard traditional Gongfu ceremony was almost forgotten by the Cultural Revolution. Chairman Mao thought Gongfu drinking as richies' drinking fashion. Factory-1 hence exported most of Gongfu SPs outside China and distributed those large pots imprinted Mao's poems and communistic slogans in mainland.

After the CR, the Gongfu ceremony was rather developed from Taiwan and kept..correct me if I'm wrong..
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Re: Gong Fu Question

Postby bagua7 » Dec 3rd, '13, 18:35

chrl42 wrote:Chairman Mao thought Gongfu drinking as richies' drinking fashion...


But, I thought Mao was a Feng Shui enthusiast and apparently quite good at it...correct me if I am wrong. :wink:
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Re: Gong Fu Question

Postby 茶藝-TeaArt08 » Dec 3rd, '13, 19:58

bagua7,

I hadn't heard the piece about Mao being a Feng Shui devotee. Noting the sly wink of the emoticon, is there some context for a hidden joke there I'm not catching? Curious and interesting!

The suppression of gong fu tea methods seems in line with the general direction of the time (post May 4th Movement), in line with certain aspects of the internal struggle within the Chinese people of the time as evidence in the The New Culture Movement and in line with tensions and changes from the Republican era (1911-1949) to the end of the Maoist era, and, one might argue, still currently, to arrive at a stable and new sense of Chinese identity in the face of increased exposure to, and dominance by, "the West." With the suppression of Literati arts and culture under Maoist influence many arts/artists were targeted in music, Chinese martial arts (Wang Shu Jin (noted Baguazhang master) and other masters leaving from China to Taiwan, etc.), etc. So, it makes sense that gong fu tea would be targeted too, perhaps as too reminiscent of bourgeois sensibilities and not directly proletarian. I'm curious. It would be interesting to see thorough academic research on the the evolution of gong fu tea/art from the Republican era to the present day.

Mao seems in certain attributions to have been of two minds about traditional Chinese culture. It is said that he advocated that poetry in the old forms not be emulated; however, he himself continued to write poetry (actually quality poetry) reminiscent of classical forms and sentiment, even while advocating that others not follow his manner (Anchor Book of Chinese Poetry, Tony Barnstone, pg. 354).

Does anyone know of good/complete/thorough scholarship on the evolution of Chinese tea practice and philosophy from the Republican era to the present day?

After the CR, the Gongfu ceremony was rather developed from Taiwan and kept..correct me if I'm wrong..


chrl42,

Much of what I've read indicates that current Cha Dao/Cha Yi got its boost from a renewed devotion in Taiwan during the 1970's as stated here: (http://www.chinaheritagequarterly.org/f ... &issue=029). Is this your view and the current view from within China as well? At a recent talk at U.C. Davis teamaster Ip Wingchi of Lokcha teahouse in Hong Kong also indicated that Taiwan was the birthplace for the modern renewal in Chayi/Chaodao/gongfu tea.

Blessings!
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Re: Gong Fu Question

Postby bagua7 » Dec 3rd, '13, 20:42

茶藝-TeaArt08 wrote:I hadn't heard the piece about Mao being a Feng Shui devotee. Noting the sly wink of the emoticon, is there some context for a hidden joke there I'm not catching? Curious and interesting!


I heard this from Chinese sources. Not 100% sure about it either but it is what I was told. So it was a serious comment.

The wink was directed to chrl42...he knows what this is all about...correct me if I am wrong. :lol:
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Re: Gong Fu Question

Postby chrl42 » Dec 3rd, '13, 23:00

茶藝-TeaArt08 wrote:Does anyone know of good/complete/thorough scholarship on the evolution of Chinese tea practice and philosophy from the Republican era to the present day?

After the CR, the Gongfu ceremony was rather developed from Taiwan and kept..correct me if I'm wrong..


chrl42,

Much of what I've read indicates that current Cha Dao/Cha Yi got its boost from a renewed devotion in Taiwan during the 1970's as stated here: (http://www.chinaheritagequarterly.org/f ... &issue=029). Is this your view and the current view from within China as well? At a recent talk at U.C. Davis teamaster Ip Wingchi of Lokcha teahouse in Hong Kong also indicated that Taiwan was the birthplace for the modern renewal in Chayi/Chaodao/gongfu tea.

Blessings!

I am not from Chaozhou nor am I a Chinese (100% pure Korean)..but I am very curious about gong-fu-cha..the statements (1.gongfu being forgotten by CR 2.Taiwan becoming a birthplace for modern GF) were what I've been hearing and reading...

Ye Han-zhong (the only succesor to chao-zhou-gong-fu-cha) also indicated in his 潮州工夫茶话 (by far the best book I've read on Gongfu)

But it'd need a time to build up to be academic on this matter..(hope you could devote some in the name of Teachat? :mrgreen: )


To Bagua,

I do know Mao was tea drinker and loved drinking Longjing everyday and ate the leaf left-overs (Hunan custom)..but it doesn't mean he did all that help to a tea culture as a tea drinker. Most notoriously, they cut down those old trees in Yunnan...'specially Yiwu where was the most famous Puerh area once..invented Shu and started mass-producing Bings. Mass-produced those commercial pots using scarce Huanglongshan clay...which ended in clay depletion to this day..! :)
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Re: Gong Fu Question

Postby betta » Dec 4th, '13, 17:06

chrl42 wrote:I do know Mao was tea drinker and loved drinking Longjing everyday and ate the leaf left-overs (Hunan custom)..but it doesn't mean he did all that help to a tea culture as a tea drinker. Most notoriously, they cut down those old trees in Yunnan...'specially Yiwu where was the most famous Puerh area once..invented Shu and started mass-producing Bings. Mass-produced those commercial pots using scarce Huanglongshan clay...which ended in clay depletion to this day..! :)


Above all, I want Mao's da hong pao plucked from those original bushes.

Chrl, do you by any chance know how he prepared his tea? also using Huanglongshan yixing teapot or something else? Just curious why there's specific instruction to mass produce teaware from scarce clay.
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