Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!


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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby chrl42 » Dec 3rd, '13, 22:41

Teaism wrote:Many would agree that this is Ching Shui Ni clay. Pot size about 120ml

For Zisha, actually there is no absolute but a probably range of type of clays. Those absolute fancy clay names are to lure collectors. The same clay have different appearance under different firing temperatures. Unless those clay are carefully separated when they are mined from Huang Loong Shan according to the strata then it would be more accurate. In reality when mining everything are dug out and mixed and cart to the factory to make teapots. Maybe clay like Shi Huang Ni which is embedded in the gap of boulders would be purer but they still appear different under various firing temperature. Of course there are connossiers and masters of Zisha who are expert in producing purer types but realistically it is still a smaller range.

So, I would say the clay it is authentic zisha from 1979, pot produced in Yixing in Ching Shui Ni clay.

It is really a big complicated world of Zhisha out there. :)
Cheers!

Do you have a seal or..?

First time seeing that looking SP..looks like 6-letter seal? Well, I am not so experienced at Zaoqi teapot...I am no Taiwanese! haha
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Teaism » Dec 3rd, '13, 23:00

Hi Chrl42,

Attached is the seal.

Usually I am hessitant in revealing the seal or every corner of the pots especially old authentic pots. It can be scanned and reproduced by fakers. :lol:

I have seen a lot of fake of newly produced ZGYX pots flooding the market now and they are getting better and better in putting up with those clues that we look for when authenticating the pot.

Told you that it is a really complicated Zisha world out there. :lol:

Thanks for your interest and have a great day my friend.


Cheers!


Edited: photo of seal removed.
Last edited by Teaism on Dec 6th, '13, 04:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby chrl42 » Dec 3rd, '13, 23:06

I do know seals are not a key point in examing the pots. Because from internet, it's really hard to catch the firing and clay quality, and harder to take a picture clearly. Seals are easier this way. 79' seals are not so proportioned anyway..just like yours.

The clay does look CR one..looks very good :D
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Tead Off » Dec 3rd, '13, 23:46

This is also a Mengshan 6 character chop from a Chao Zhou pot I have. The last character on the right is different than Teaism's and mine is stamped pointing at the spout opposed to the usual pointing at the handle. :?
mansheng CZ zhuni chop.jpg
mansheng CZ zhuni chop.jpg (121.76 KiB) Viewed 471 times
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby wert » Dec 4th, '13, 01:09

Tead Off wrote:This is also a Mengshan 6 character chop from a Chao Zhou pot I have. The last character on the right is different than Teaism's and mine is stamped pointing at the spout opposed to the usual pointing at the handle. :?
mansheng CZ zhuni chop.jpg

This one is 荊溪孟臣製。
North instead of the usual "南" South,荊溪南孟臣製 is a early era chop. I am far from an expert but have seen a couple of pots with the North chop, they don't feel "old".
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Tead Off » Dec 4th, '13, 01:16

What do you mean by 'old'? I bought mine in the 80's.
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby wert » Dec 4th, '13, 01:30

Tead Off wrote:What do you mean by 'old'? I bought mine in the 80's.

First, disclaimer! I am ill equipped to offer any sort of "true" canon information on old pots. So, take whatever I write on the subject with a pinch of salt.

The yixing I seen with similar chop as yours feels like later works. It belongs to a friend and this guy thinks it is 90s.
I meant "old" in the context of 荊溪南孟臣製 chop which associate with the 60s. The 北chop you have is very rarely seen though.
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Tead Off » Dec 4th, '13, 01:44

Wert,

Don't forget this is not a Yixing pot. It is from Chao Zhou. I don't consider these 'old' pots. Old for me begins pre-Mao, ROC, Qing, etc.

I was just offering up the chop as an oddity because it is a 6 character chop and is upside down compared to most other chops which face the handle. Again, I personally bought it in the 80's so I know it to be at least that old. :D
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby wert » Dec 4th, '13, 02:12

I see, sorry n00b here!:)

I don't collect pots and don't own many of them. Among those I have, quite a few of them have chops (the common six characters mengchen and the four characters zhongguo yixing seal) facing the spout, instead of the handle. Does that mean anything?
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Tead Off » Dec 4th, '13, 02:43

wert wrote:I see, sorry n00b here!:)

I don't collect pots and don't own many of them. Among those I have, quite a few of them have chops (the common six characters mengchen and the four characters zhongguo yixing seal) facing the spout, instead of the handle. Does that mean anything?

I'm not sure. This is one of the reasons I posted the chop. Maybe one of our more talented Yixing afficianados can tell us. For myself, I'm not sure I've ever seen another chop facing the spout. Drunken potter?
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Teaism » Dec 4th, '13, 07:44

Actually there are a lot of variations in these 6 character seal and also CGYX seals. There are many potters and factories producing utilitarian Yixing pots that time using various variation of the same style. Pots are done in human production line in many locations and they don't just share the same chop but have the same style in sync with that era. So any pot new or old, we still have to assess the pot based on a few points e.g clay, technical accomplishment, functionlity, workmanship, artistic excellence, character and spirit etc. Old doesn't mean good and new doesn't mean bad.

To make it complicated, the "era-fakers" came in, 50s pot faked in 70s, 70s pots faked in 90s.....and the world of complicated world of Yixing pots began.... :lol:

Sometimes, I always feel more peaceful going along with a simple gaiwan, but what am I going to do with my hundreds my old Yixing pots... :D
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby gasninja » Dec 4th, '13, 08:10

Teaism wrote:
Sometimes, I always feel more peaceful going along with a simple gaiwan, but what am I going to do with my hundreds my old Yixing pots... :D


I will PM you my address and send you a PayPal to cover shipping.
I am very concerned about your sense of peace. :D
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Teaism » Dec 4th, '13, 08:27

Haha my friend that was thoughtful and fast... But unfortunately that silly thought of mine is also faked. :lol:
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby chrl42 » Dec 4th, '13, 08:48

Teaism wrote:Actually there are a lot of variations in these 6 character seal and also CGYX seals. There are many potters and factories producing utilitarian Yixing pots that time using various variation of the same style. Pots are done in human production line in many locations and they don't just share the same chop but have the same style in sync with that era. So any pot new or old, we still have to assess the pot based on a few points e.g clay, technical accomplishment, functionlity, workmanship, artistic excellence, character and spirit etc. Old doesn't mean good and new doesn't mean bad.

To make it complicated, the "era-fakers" came in, 50s pot faked in 70s, 70s pots faked in 90s.....and the world of complicated world of Yixing pots began.... :lol:

Sometimes, I always feel more peaceful going along with a simple gaiwan, but what am I going to do with my hundreds my old Yixing pots... :D

Zaoqi period is strictly from 56~early-80s. And there ARE rules defining the period..ones that don't understand that rules, shouldn't go buy Zaoqi pots.

5~70s seals are limited..that's not mainlanders say but SP collectors of HK and Taiwan.

Late-70s~early-80s seals are not limited, like you said so many seals and chops were used during that period because the quantity boosted during that period. Moreover lots of moulds appeared, various shapes of quality clays were produced during late-70s~early-80s...they are 82-xiao-pin. Talking about SPs, 5~70s SPs are a deal..they were more organized and the seals used were actually the same seals as the ROC period (6-letter).

Yet late-70s~early-80s, there were many new clays appeared due to mining of #4 mine (they were mainly Hongni and Qingshuini before that) and new shapes....82-xiao-pins are already HARD to get..unlike 10 years ago.
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby wert » Dec 4th, '13, 08:53

Teaism wrote:Actually there are a lot of variations in these 6 character seal and also CGYX seals. There are many potters and factories producing utilitarian Yixing pots that time using various variation of the same style. Pots are done in human production line in many locations and they don't just share the same chop but have the same style in sync with that era. So any pot new or old, we still have to assess the pot based on a few points e.g clay, technical accomplishment, functionlity, workmanship, artistic excellence, character and spirit etc. Old doesn't mean good and new doesn't mean bad.

To make it complicated, the "era-fakers" came in, 50s pot faked in 70s, 70s pots faked in 90s.....and the world of complicated world of Yixing pots began.... :lol:

Sometimes, I always feel more peaceful going along with a simple gaiwan, but what am I going to do with my hundreds my old Yixing pots... :D


In short the direction the seal is facing does not mean anything at all, right? I just took a look, I think half of my pots faced one way and the other faced another.

I am still raw and have alot to learn....I have a question on age of the pots. From what I heard from other more experienced people, the teapot could be ID more or less to the decade by 1)the clay 2)how it was manufactured 3)the shape/style of the pot. How much of that is true?
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