Types of Puer? When to Give up?


One of the intentionally aged teas, Pu-Erh has a loyal following.

Re: Types of Puer? When to Give up?

Postby shah82 » Jan 15th, '14, 01:26

Try samples from here: http://www.houdeasianart.com/index.php? ... 271b643277

Most of the items are very fair in prices.

Yunnan Sourcing for more bulk stuff, and every day material. Most is crap, a few good things.

Mandarin's Tea Room has one classic aged puerh, and one young single mountain Yiwu. The aged tea is great, so I hear, and I've had the young tea, which is pretty good.

Essence of Tea is also respectable.

There is Sampletea, Far Wenwa Tea, Origin Tea, and white2tea.

Again, there isn't any genuine point with cheaper puerh as opposed to getting your caffeine any other way. Those teas have their charms, but it takes an educated taste and indulgent attitude to appreciate them. Otherwise, you drink it because they're cheap caffeine. Good tea will be wasted on n00bs too, but it will be easier and more encouraging to have something nice, and with repeated exposure, you'll figure out exactly why something is good. There are substantial resources online to guide you to potentially good choices for you, though much of it will be about tea you can't buy anymore.
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Re: Types of Puer? When to Give up?

Postby William » Jan 15th, '14, 16:27

shah82 wrote:Good tea will be wasted on n00bs too


Well, I consider myself an absolute beginner regarding the subject Pu Erh, but I can tell you that the last few sessions that I had ​​with Pu Erh of really good quality (EoT samples), have taught me and still teach me, session after session, what should be a Pu Erh worthy of this name, compared to all the stuff (productions of big tea factories) that I drank in the past six/eight months.

In conclusion, I can assure you that good tea can only help a beginner to understand how a Pu Erh should be, and in no way there can be a waste in all this.

Have a good day!
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Re: Types of Puer? When to Give up?

Postby shah82 » Jan 15th, '14, 17:18

Uh huh...

Yes, good tea will be wasted on n00bs. It's part of the learning process. Tuition is just as much about encountering good teas as well as bad teas. I suppose I mean wasted in the sense that a n00b will only perceive the broad good qualities and not the parts that makes it good, not a waste in the sense that good teas will educate an inexperienced drinker (every bit as much as a failed carpentry experiment with good wood is tuition). However, *all* unfamiliar consumables will educate a consumer, and so is true in the trivial sense, which is why I never intend "wasted" in that respect.

I have drunk a great deal of tea in 2010 that I, in no way, appreciated as much as I should have. I never thought they were bad teas, and I enjoyed them, and I learned from them. However, drinking such tea, by myself, was far less of an experience than I could have had. Now, most such teas are unavailable or extremely expensive, and when I encounter the same teas today, I feel bad that I never gave them the credit for being good tea when I first had them. I mean, the early puerh bloggers pretty much dismissed the 2006 Fall ChenGuangHeTang Yiwu Chawang as being a meh tea that's just good when it first came out. I had a sample the other day, and it's clearly a first caliber publically sold tea by my estimation. Back in 2006-2008, people barely understood what a premium young or aged tea was like, and understood even less their actual value. In 2010, I was the same way, and now, I have the same regrets any other experienced tea drinkers do. All n00bs will eventually come to regret as they become experienced at understanding what a good puerh tea is like. There will be a number of "better than what you thought it was" teas that help you along your path, and you'll remember them wistfully.

It does really help to drink tea with other, more experienced drinkers. You'll minimize wastage that way.
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Re: Types of Puer? When to Give up?

Postby William » Jan 15th, '14, 17:48

shah82 wrote:Uh huh...

Yes, good tea will be wasted on n00bs. It's part of the learning process. Tuition is just as much about encountering good teas as well as bad teas. I suppose I mean wasted in the sense that a n00b will only perceive the broad good qualities and not the parts that makes it good, not a waste in the sense that good teas will educate an inexperienced drinker (every bit as much as a failed carpentry experiment with good wood is tuition). However, *all* unfamiliar consumables will educate a consumer, and so is true in the trivial sense, which is why I never intend "wasted" in that respect.

I have drunk a great deal of tea in 2010 that I, in no way, appreciated as much as I should have. I never thought they were bad teas, and I enjoyed them, and I learned from them. However, drinking such tea, by myself, was far less of an experience than I could have had. Now, most such teas are unavailable or extremely expensive, and when I encounter the same teas today, I feel bad that I never gave them the credit for being good tea when I first had them. I mean, the early puerh bloggers pretty much dismissed the 2006 Fall ChenGuangHeTang Yiwu Chawang as being a meh tea that's just good when it first came out. I had a sample the other day, and it's clearly a first caliber publically sold tea by my estimation. Back in 2006-2008, people barely understood what a premium young or aged tea was like, and understood even less their actual value. In 2010, I was the same way, and now, I have the same regrets any other experienced tea drinkers do. All n00bs will eventually come to regret as they become experienced at understanding what a good puerh tea is like. There will be a number of "better than what you thought it was" teas that help you along your path, and you'll remember them wistfully.

It does really help to drink tea with other, more experienced drinkers. You'll minimize wastage that way.


What you're describing seems more a personal experience than anything else.

What I learned by trying in the last six/eight months Pu Erh of dubious quality is close to zero. As for me, despite my inexperience, I could right now discern the good from the not good simply by purchasing (and drinking :mrgreen:) some samples of tea considered to be of excellent quality, and it is from these sessions that I have learned and I am learning what I know about Pu Erh, not trying all the junk drunk in the past.

My advice to all novice (like me) who will read this post is to buy a few samples of high quality, try them and start from these to figure out what you like and what you do not like .. let all the junk and hidden treasures to those who are looking for this!
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Re: Types of Puer? When to Give up?

Postby shah82 » Jan 15th, '14, 18:45

I think I will let time do the talking. There are plentiful resources online to tell you otherwise, when you're ready.
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Re: Types of Puer? When to Give up?

Postby miig » Jan 15th, '14, 18:51

William wrote:My advice to all novice (like me) who will read this post is to buy a few samples of high quality, try them and start from these to figure out what you like and what you do not like .. let all the junk and hidden treasures to those who are looking for this!


Hi Will,

thats a really nice idea. Might I complicate things a little? I got two very different suggestions:

The first: Theres something that helped me much learning how to disciminate: I'm very new to Pu, but it did the trick for me with greens and Dan Congs: I'd recommend buying some high quality samples, and also some of a lower price.
If you drink two of these one against the other, often things become clear quite fast...
of course there is a lot of variables involved here and not everyone will discover a tea the same way... but if you have the cheap one against the good one, i think many people may quickly notice whats missing.
What also might happen is that you don't recognize so much difference between decent-quality samples and high-end samples. That happens to me regularly, and that tells me when its not economical for me, at this point to buy more expensive things.

Even though that is only if you got the stamina to do tedious testing. I very often do not do that, just because it requires very much concentration to compare in detail. This enables me to learn a lot quickly, but it sometimes feels more like work than like leisure time. If you don't want to do that, I recommend a more laid-back approach: So what I do more often is buy a intermediate amount of a tea that has been recommended by a trustworthy source, 100g, or 200g. So that its good quality, but yet affordable. And then I just drink it, regularly.. so I don't need to analyze quickly, knowing it will run out soon.. i just get accustomed to it... and then, after its gone, if i buy some more, different samples, by having a base to compare it with, its much easier and more relaxed. Takes more time though, but thats more tea-like for me. Of course, theres virtually nothing i really dislike. Please don't do this if you don't like a tea, don't torture yourself :)
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Re: Types of Puer? When to Give up?

Postby William » Jan 15th, '14, 19:46

miig wrote:
William wrote:My advice to all novice (like me) who will read this post is to buy a few samples of high quality, try them and start from these to figure out what you like and what you do not like .. let all the junk and hidden treasures to those who are looking for this!


The first: Theres something that helped me much learning how to disciminate: I'm very new to Pu, but it did the trick for me with greens and Dan Congs: I'd recommend buying some high quality samples, and also some of a lower price.
If you drink two of these one against the other, often things become clear quite fast...
of course there is a lot of variables involved here and not everyone will discover a tea the same way... but if you have the cheap one against the good one, i think many people may quickly notice whats missing.


No issues with this approach, but just do not recline on examples of poor quality. Trying to understand the differences between Pu Erh of poor quality and high quality is already a big step that require time (and good tea :mrgreen:).
I am at this stage, and surely a golden rule I'm trying to follow is to drink little tea of excellent quality, instead of tons of very poor quality, in order to make each session instructive and memorable.

Have a good day!
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Re: Types of Puer? When to Give up?

Postby Tead Off » Jan 15th, '14, 23:16

It's all in how you approach the subject. One noob will not equal another noob. lol. The main thing is the ability to discern what you are ingesting. Wine is the same thing. If you only drink crap, you'll never know what good is. Will you appreciate a good puerh in the same way a 30 year drinker will? Probably not, but that shouldn't be a reason to stop one from the experience. Makes no sense to drink mediocre tea, now or ever. I was a lucky guy when I walked into that tea shop in Hong Kong in the late 80's and the owner sat me down and poured some premium TGY for me. I knew immediately I had never tasted anything like this before and it was good. It opened up a new world. Desire for tea was born. In time, desire gets transformed but the tea remains. :D
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Re: Types of Puer? When to Give up?

Postby kikula » Jan 16th, '14, 00:22

Right. I can't agree either that a good tea of a particular sort is wasted on someone new to it, though nuanced appreciation is always a developing factor. I was fairly disinterested in tea until I began learning how to make truly rewarding purchases, and looking back I certainly don't think that good quality was lost on me even from day one once that project was launched. We don't send people to Teavana or the grocery store for tea tutelage, we send them to what we think is the best tea and the best vendor. Pu seems to be discussed more often that way, perhaps because it's more difficult both to appreciate and to procure skillfully.
I've purchased other teas from vendors mentioned here as reliable for pu - I'll check out Tea Urchin and Mandarin, always a good bet. I'm not the OP but thanks to those who offered good advice and specific suggestions!
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Re: Types of Puer? When to Give up?

Postby TuoChaTea » Jan 16th, '14, 01:37

Teaism wrote:Tea is not really expensive. Let say a very good Puer cake of 375gm cost $1000. You use around 3 gms every session which cost $8 per session. A good tea can last say 10 brews on 100ml pot. Normally it is even more. Let say you can get a few good brews of a total of 1 liter. So it just cost $8 per liter.


Actually, I don't think you can squeeze out 10 good 100 ml brews from 3 grams of tea - you need 5-8 grams for 100 ml pot - at least I use that much. So a $1000 tea converts into $20 sessions, which equals to a really good wine. Really-really good one.

The biggest problem is that you have to pay the $1000 upfront.
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Re: Types of Puer? When to Give up?

Postby kyarazen » Jan 16th, '14, 02:55

TuoChaTea wrote:
Teaism wrote:Tea is not really expensive. Let say a very good Puer cake of 375gm cost $1000. You use around 3 gms every session which cost $8 per session. A good tea can last say 10 brews on 100ml pot. Normally it is even more. Let say you can get a few good brews of a total of 1 liter. So it just cost $8 per liter.


Actually, I don't think you can squeeze out 10 good 100 ml brews from 3 grams of tea - you need 5-8 grams for 100 ml pot - at least I use that much. So a $1000 tea converts into $20 sessions, which equals to a really good wine. Really-really good one.

The biggest problem is that you have to pay the $1000 upfront.


its possible with a really good tea like a good LBZ, which when brewed really quick with short infusions, produce a delicious brew. the last time i had it, it was taken up to 20 infusions..

for average teas i use about 4-5 grams/100ml pot or gaiwan
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Re: Types of Puer? When to Give up?

Postby Teaism » Jan 16th, '14, 03:59

TuoChaTea wrote:
Teaism wrote:Tea is not really expensive. Let say a very good Puer cake of 375gm cost $1000. You use around 3 gms every session which cost $8 per session. A good tea can last say 10 brews on 100ml pot. Normally it is even more. Let say you can get a few good brews of a total of 1 liter. So it just cost $8 per liter.


Actually, I don't think you can squeeze out 10 good 100 ml brews from 3 grams of tea - you need 5-8 grams for 100 ml pot - at least I use that much. So a $1000 tea converts into $20 sessions, which equals to a really good wine. Really-really good one.

The biggest problem is that you have to pay the $1000 upfront.


Actually the scenario I put up is just a general calculation. Eventually it depends on case by case basis. I find the calculation works for me most of the time as those really good ones that I sourced cost about $200 plus.

I have a much longer history and knowledge on wine and I have a proper cellar at home but I don't think I can get any decent wine even for cooking at $20 at where I live. You are lucky with that price and quality availability at where you live. That's why I have to stick to tea more. If we meet up by any chance in future , you bring the wine and I bring the tea. Best of both world. :D

Cheers!
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Re: Types of Puer? When to Give up?

Postby TuoChaTea » Jan 16th, '14, 13:52

No problem :-) The local wines here (Slovak, Czech, Hungarian) are becoming quite good lately.
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Re: Types of Puer? When to Give up?

Postby Teaism » Jan 16th, '14, 20:50

TuoChaTea wrote:No problem :-) The local wines here (Slovak, Czech, Hungarian) are becoming quite good lately.


Wow! Sounds exotic and good! :D I can't find any Slovak or Czech wine here. Would be nice to try it. Perhaps it is like the good local tea which I tried in China. Rare, local, exotic and really good.
I like Hungarian Tokaji and have some good bottles of it.

Have a great day and cheers!
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Re: Types of Puer? When to Give up?

Postby ethan » Jan 17th, '14, 00:40

$200 cakes of puer & $20 bottles of wine are too expensive for some of us. I cannot afford to get into puer, Japanese green tea, & a lot of teaware. I cannot afford to pay dollars for bottled water to make my tea either. I have carried empty bottles to fill w/ good water....
Anyway, I am not out to tell my story, but to remind people to accept the limitations of their finances & time, & their palates. All of us don't need to have every tea as a mastered hedonistic entity. (What am I saying? lol)
I want to answer the ? of the thread. It is time to give up on Puer, when one has spent $ on puer more than once, that he has not liked, while not buying tea that he knows he likes. Any other answers to the ? of the thread that really address it?
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