Autumn harvest.


One of the intentionally aged teas, Pu-Erh has a loyal following.

Autumn harvest.

Postby William » Jan 17th, '14, 09:00

Hi guys, I have a question for all of you.
Why the autumn harvest is generally considered of lower quality than the spring harvest? If so, it can be generally applied within the world of Pu-Erh, or are there exceptions?

Thanks. :)
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Re: Autumn harvest.

Postby shah82 » Jan 17th, '14, 12:49

Puerh's difference from other tea is in depth and length of taste. As with Wuyi, you mainly see a strong preference for spring that will have the concentration of phytochems and minerals needed.

Fall tea is good for aroma, and certainly isn't that bad, compared to rain tea. Dancongs, gaoshans, and other oolongs that have an even stronger emphasis on aroma have higher acceptance of fall flushes.

This sort of lowering in quality is easiest seen in Darjeeling black tea. Take a first flush, and compare it with an autumn flush.
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Re: Autumn harvest.

Postby Tead Off » Jan 17th, '14, 14:12

shah82 wrote:This sort of lowering in quality is easiest seen in Darjeeling black tea. Take a first flush, and compare it with an autumn flush.

While I do have a preference for 2nd flush Darj, I wouldn't call it a lowering of quality if you're saying that FF is the best. In fact, that 2nd flush is considered the standard for Darjeeling teas as the muscatel flavor is at its height. The Autumn flush, admittedly is not as desirable to me. However, with puerh, I have had some very good autumn teas with full flavor and depth. I think the Autumn puerhs have gotten a bad rap and it maybe due to the TCM beliefs about qi, etc., which may or may not be bunk.
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Re: Autumn harvest.

Postby shah82 » Jan 17th, '14, 14:29

but I didn't compare first and second flush. I compared first and autumn flush.
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Re: Autumn harvest.

Postby ethan » Jan 17th, '14, 15:03

I've been drinking all three flushes of "Darjeeling" tea (technically from Nepal). I like them all. If FF & SF were not available or unaffordable, I could make do w/o them, though there are appreciable differences between autumn flush & the other seasons'.
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Re: Autumn harvest.

Postby honza » Jan 17th, '14, 16:47

2013 autumn was not really good harvest for pu. Too many rain whole summer and autumn. And price for the tea if compare with taste, was really kind of joke. Only some Lincang area teas I had was not bad.
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Re: Autumn harvest.

Postby puyuan » Jan 17th, '14, 18:37

You can have poor climatic conditions for the Spring harvests and excellent ones for the Autumn one, and that should always be factored in. That notwithstanding, the problem with autumn tea is that it's almost exactly like Spring tea, except it's thinned out all over. I find that particularly true regarding the viscosity of the broth. I just had an unbelievable session with an Autumn sample from very deep in Yiwu, and I'd take this over many premium old arbors teas, but I don't expect the Spring version to be the lesser one. Fall and Summer are very different though, more like their own thing. Fall harvests are a little wildcard, I've seen them yielding tea that is exceptional to no fault.

Edit: Silly me, I meant winter obviously
Last edited by puyuan on Jan 28th, '14, 00:15, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Autumn harvest.

Postby puyuan » Jan 17th, '14, 18:39

honza wrote:2013 autumn was not really good harvest for pu. Too many rain whole summer and autumn. And price for the tea if compare with taste, was really kind of joke. Only some Lincang area teas I had was not bad.

Do you know if the current snow in Yunnan will be a good or bad thing for the next harvest? I saw big arguments on the chinese boards.
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Re: Autumn harvest.

Postby honza » Jan 17th, '14, 19:11

I not have idea. What Chinese say ? Last month was really cold in Kunming but not really in Banna. Now is normal Kunming winter here, everyday sun and everynight cold..But Xishuanbanna is different...
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Re: Autumn harvest.

Postby Teaism » Jan 17th, '14, 21:55

puyuan wrote:
honza wrote:2013 autumn was not really good harvest for pu. Too many rain whole summer and autumn. And price for the tea if compare with taste, was really kind of joke. Only some Lincang area teas I had was not bad.

Do you know if the current snow in Yunnan will be a good or bad thing for the next harvest? I saw big arguments on the chinese boards.


They are looking for excuse to raise the prices again. This is a common pattern. From drought to snow to overdevelopment. Fear is often a common business tactic there. Fear of reducing resource, fear of missing out the best buy, fear of not having something that others have. The business people always use this to blind the consumer to get into hasty buying.
Have no fear. Just buy wisely and carefully. One day the consumer will get fed up and the market will collapse.
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Re: Autumn harvest.

Postby Tead Off » Jan 17th, '14, 23:11

shah82 wrote:but I didn't compare first and second flush. I compared first and autumn flush.

I know, and I agree about Darjeelings.
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Re: Autumn harvest.

Postby kyarazen » Jan 18th, '14, 02:46

William wrote:Hi guys, I have a question for all of you.
Why the autumn harvest is generally considered of lower quality than the spring harvest? If so, it can be generally applied within the world of Pu-Erh, or are there exceptions?

Thanks. :)


it doesnt apply only to tea but many chinese herbs. in the chinese medicine point of view, autumn harvest is not good for leave materials, but good for harvesting root materials etc, temporary senescence sets in to prepare for winter, the plant withdraws most nutrients and good stuffs from the leaves and converts them into storage compounds into roots or storage organs for winter use and for germination/sprouting in spring

with sunlight declining, pigmentation in the leaves will change as well, resulting in a change in flavour, and perhaps touch of delicateness to the tea. i often make the mistake of ignoring autumn teas or winter ones (being a biologist myself) but the key deciding factor is still in the brew. i have tasted some excellent autumn TGY, huang jin gui etc which made me a little less cynical.

if its autumn tea, well picked, well made with good fragrance and taste, it will be better than some of the poorly made plantation rubbish from spring etc.
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Re: Autumn harvest.

Postby puyuan » Jan 20th, '14, 23:39

Teaism wrote:
puyuan wrote:
honza wrote:2013 autumn was not really good harvest for pu. Too many rain whole summer and autumn. And price for the tea if compare with taste, was really kind of joke. Only some Lincang area teas I had was not bad.

Do you know if the current snow in Yunnan will be a good or bad thing for the next harvest? I saw big arguments on the chinese boards.


They are looking for excuse to raise the prices again. This is a common pattern. From drought to snow to overdevelopment. Fear is often a common business tactic there. Fear of reducing resource, fear of missing out the best buy, fear of not having something that others have. The business people always use this to blind the consumer to get into hasty buying.
Have no fear. Just buy wisely and carefully. One day the consumer will get fed up and the market will collapse.



Words of wisdom! I just was now talking to a very reliable Kungming seller who sources rather excellent tea and this is what the farmers are telling him about the effects of the snow:


"There'll be a big drop in crop yields. Prices are estimated to go up a little. I just got back from Laobanzhang, it's being said Laobanzhang prices may rise over 40%."

Forty percent above those already insane prices!
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Re: Autumn harvest.

Postby honza » Jan 21st, '14, 09:41

Chinese tea sellers don´t stop talk about prices of tea. Is the top topic everywhere and I really dislike go drink tea to tea shops these days. The sick of money here is something horrible. Prices jump everyday. Many sellers who two years back can offer good tea with good prices have crap with high prices now... :|
LBZ is the best sick ... :D We met couple of young LBZ farmers in Kunming last month in friend´s shop. Young wife with gold everywhere and her husband with really big phone which is here sell like 10 000rmb, but sad, he can not read Chinese...so he just open and close the phone whole time for no reason...
I am not jealous if they can buy some crazy stuff but they also discussed about young Bulang people there now drink so often alcohol or take drugs (this can see pretty good in not harvest time in Menghai city for example, really bad things)

As like Teaism wrote, hope the chain effect of price crash will happenll soon. Because the quality of new tea really go down and is not the weather problem only.
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