Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!


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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby chrl42 » Feb 12th, '14, 22:08

Have Some Tea wrote:
Antique Yixing Teapot 19th CE x1.jpg
Antique Yixing Teapot 19th CE x2.jpg
Antique Yixing Teapot 19th CE x8.jpg


19th CE Yixing pot history:
Currently 3 generations in the family as an antique on display.
Acquired in China between 1920 and 1930 by a relative who was a high ranking officer in the Royal Dutch Navy.

It's in perfect condition with some signs of use and no chips or cracks.
The patina on the inside is rich and shows signs of old use and many Zen (Chan) tea moments.

Clay: Zisha
Fired: High
Manufactured: probably 19th century
Acquired: between 1920 and 1930
Use: Not in use since acquired

I see that some of you are experts on this matter. I would be very interested in the manufacturing date/era and the maker, if you can decipher the name stamp... And as a tea connoisseur and Zen practitioner I would be grateful if you can unravel the mystery of the calligraphy on the side.

Shizi is usually ROC (1910s~1950s) creations, they made during the CR period, as well. Overall shape is good, but lid-seal follows more of CR style, than ROC style. Zhu Ke-xin and Fan Zu-de were famous Shizi experts...are there hand-making lines inside the pot?


looks like 采仙 on the lid, no records found. Looks like the potter didn't carry his/her own seal, usually ROC masters use their own seals. If it's the CR stuff, it'd pass. If it's the ROC stuff, it should belong to moderate or mediocre range :)
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Have Some Tea » Feb 13th, '14, 05:54

chrl42 wrote:
Have Some Tea wrote:
The attachment Antique Yixing Teapot 19th CE x1.jpg is no longer available
The attachment Antique Yixing Teapot 19th CE x2.jpg is no longer available
The attachment Antique Yixing Teapot 19th CE x8.jpg is no longer available


19th CE Yixing pot history:
Currently 3 generations in the family as an antique on display.
Acquired in China between 1920 and 1930 by a relative who was a high ranking officer in the Royal Dutch Navy.

It's in perfect condition with some signs of use and no chips or cracks.
The patina on the inside is rich and shows signs of old use and many Zen (Chan) tea moments.

Clay: Zisha
Fired: High
Manufactured: probably 19th century
Acquired: between 1920 and 1930
Use: Not in use since acquired

I see that some of you are experts on this matter. I would be very interested in the manufacturing date/era and the maker, if you can decipher the name stamp... And as a tea connoisseur and Zen practitioner I would be grateful if you can unravel the mystery of the calligraphy on the side.

Shizi is usually ROC (1910s~1950s) creations, they made during the CR period, as well. Overall shape is good, but lid-seal follows more of CR style, than ROC style. Zhu Ke-xin and Fan Zu-de were famous Shizi experts...are there hand-making lines inside the pot?


looks like 采仙 on the lid, no records found. Looks like the potter didn't carry his/her own seal, usually ROC masters use their own seals. If it's the CR stuff, it'd pass. If it's the ROC stuff, it should belong to moderate or mediocre range :)


Thanks Chrl42,

I looked inside the pot and discovered small circular shaped marks on the bottom. More clearly visible is a circular mark on the ceiling, in the shape of the lid opening. Looks like marks from a shaping tool. Visible with the eye but due to light very hard to capture with a camera.

I have included some more pictures that may give away signs of it's origin to the experts eye. Take a look at the seal from another angle, maybe the first photo was upside down, I'm not sure. :wink:

Btw what is the CR period and the COR period?

Thanks again, it's an interesting quest. :mrgreen:

Antique Yixing Teapot 19th CE x3.jpg
Antique Yixing Teapot 19th CE x3.jpg (71.86 KiB) Viewed 531 times
Antique Yixing Teapot 19th CE x4.jpg
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Antique Yixing Teapot 19th CE x7.jpg
Antique Yixing Teapot 19th CE x7.jpg (48.58 KiB) Viewed 531 times
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Have Some Tea » Feb 13th, '14, 06:02

To complete the series.....

Ohw, and if someone can read the free-hand calligraphy on the side... Please share the mystery. :mrgreen:

Antique Yixing Teapot 19th CE x1.jpg
Antique Yixing Teapot 19th CE x1.jpg (58.75 KiB) Viewed 530 times
Antique Yixing Teapot 19th CE x5.jpg
Antique Yixing Teapot 19th CE x5.jpg (59.79 KiB) Viewed 530 times
Antique Yixing Teapot 19th CE x6.jpg
Antique Yixing Teapot 19th CE x6.jpg (44.5 KiB) Viewed 530 times
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Tead Off » Feb 13th, '14, 06:05

Those circular rings are from a tool that is used to smooth out the clay in certain areas, mainly, the bottom, interior, and sometimes the interior of the lid. They are not rings gotten from throwing the pots on a wheel, ala, Chaozhou and Japanese pots.

ROC= Republic of China
CR= Cultural Revolution

I would say this pot was made in ROC, but the absence of a seal on the bottom is odd, if indeed it was purchased between 1920-30. Plus, I just noticed the ball filter in your pot. Did they use ball filters in the ROC period? Someone else will have to answer this. Perhaps chrl42 is correct and this is a CR or later pot.

CR period was notorious for omitting individual potters names because of the ideological nature of Mao's Communism.
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby William » Feb 13th, '14, 06:37

Tead Off wrote:Plus, I just noticed the ball filter in your pot. Did they use ball filters in the ROC period?


This is exactly what I think too. From what I have learned, this filter has begun to circulate in the early/mid 70's. If my information is correct, how is it possible that this teapot is older?

I also have another observation to make - the inner walls of the teapot have visibly seen a lot of tea (or something else) during these years, but the external incisions have not seen any, due to the white part (how should I call it?) inside each incision that usually darkens with use. If so, I would think more at a fictitious aging, rather than to a real use. Is this the case?
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Have Some Tea » Feb 13th, '14, 07:53

William wrote:
Tead Off wrote:Plus, I just noticed the ball filter in your pot. Did they use ball filters in the ROC period?


This is exactly what I think too. From what I have learned, this filter has begun to circulate in the early/mid 70's. If my information is correct, how is it possible that this teapot is older?

I also have another observation to make - the inner walls of the teapot have visibly seen a lot of tea (or something else) during these years, but the external incisions have not seen any, due to the white part (how should I call it?) inside each incision that usually darkens with use. If so, I would think more at a fictitious aging, rather than to a real use. Is this the case?


Hi William,

That's a good question. The only thing I know from the word of relatives is that it has been in the family from the 1920's - 1930's and that the pot wasn't in use from the moment it was acquired, hence the clear calligraphy marks. The calligraphy is not deep enough to collect a lot of dust and stain. But there is always a possibility that the "spoken truth" is not an actual fact. The nature of the human mind is to record history in a subjective way.

I just spoke to a relative to check the possibility of the pot being collected in the 70's. But that seems to be out of the equation because the person who received the pot as a gift in China had passed away by then. :?

All your views and opinions are much appreciated, my quest is to unravel the mystery and your help is very welcome. :wink:
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby kyarazen » Feb 13th, '14, 09:31

Have Some Tea wrote: -cut-


forgive my "inexperienced" opinions, i'm not anywhere near the experts that can tell the era from one look at the clay

but it resembles something from the 70s CR to me..
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Teaism » Feb 13th, '14, 11:26

I am no expert in judging a pot from photo but just curious that the interior looks well used and badly stained , but the exterior looks quite new. The is no apparent stains to show the pot was being used for brewing tea. The filter is also of later design, typical filter design of 80s/90s pots...just curious about this interesting pot. Seems to be there are some details from different eras in the same pot. It does happen sometimes.

I am not sure and might be wrong, please take my comments as a pinch of salt.

Cheers!
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby the_economist » Feb 13th, '14, 14:31

Hi Havesometea, it sounds like your family is European? I guess that would mean the pot would've been used as if it were an European style teapot with no pouring of tea or water over the exterior of the pot?
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby wyardley » Feb 13th, '14, 14:49

Could be wrong, but I would guess 70s or later more than earlier, based on that picture, and the presence of a ball filter.

Even though Yixing potters don't wheel throw pots, they do use a small banding wheel, so that, combined with the tools they use, can create some circular marks when the pot is being finished.
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Have Some Tea » Feb 13th, '14, 15:29

the_economist wrote:Hi Havesometea, it sounds like your family is European? I guess that would mean the pot would've been used as if it were an European style teapot with no pouring of tea or water over the exterior of the pot?


Hi The_economist,

That's right my family is from The Netherlands.
Today I called my mother to discuss more details about the acquisition of the pot. She got it passed down from my grandmother in the mid 70' and never used it from that moment. So if I must believe my mother, and I do :wink: , the pot is at least older that date.

Word is that it was acquired in China as a gift by a relative who was a high ranking officer in the Royal Dutch Navy around 1920-1930. But the acquisition date is not 100% fact and could be a later date. From that moment on it's not certain if it was used to brew European style tea or not but that's not out of the question.

Thanks for your inquisition. :)

All opinions and views combined still give a very mixed direction. At the moment we are guessing from COR, CR to 70' and even 80'-90'. The last are out of the question.

The remarks about the ball filter are interesting but is there any certainty in linking a pre and after era? And if so where can we draw a line?

Does anyone on this forum know if an expert on Chinese ceramics is active here? :roll:
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby TIM » Feb 13th, '14, 16:18

Have Some Tea wrote:
the_economist wrote:Hi Havesometea, it sounds like your family is European? I guess that would mean the pot would've been used as if it were an European style teapot with no pouring of tea or water over the exterior of the pot?


Hi The_economist,

That's right my family is from The Netherlands.
Today I called my mother to discuss more details about the acquisition of the pot. She got it passed down from my grandmother in the mid 70' and never used it from that moment. So if I must believe my mother, and I do :wink: , the pot is at least older that date.

Word is that it was acquired in China as a gift by a relative who was a high ranking officer in the Royal Dutch Navy around 1920-1930. But the acquisition date is not 100% fact and could be a later date. From that moment on it's not certain if it was used to brew European style tea or not but that's not out of the question.

Thanks for your inquisition. :)

All opinions and views combined still give a very mixed direction. At the moment we are guessing from COR, CR to 70' and even 80'-90'. The last are out of the question.

The remarks about the ball filter are interesting but is there any certainty in linking a pre and after era? And if so where can we draw a line?

Does anyone on this forum know if an expert on Chinese ceramics is active here? :roll:


Are you intent to keep it and start using it, or are you thinking of selling it?
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Have Some Tea » Feb 13th, '14, 17:01

TIM wrote:Are you intent to keep it and start using it, or are you thinking of selling it?


Hi Tim,

Why? Are you interested? :mrgreen:
I actually quite like the pot but I don't use it because my preferred choice of tea is Japanese Sencha, Hoijcha, Kukicha, Gyokuro and occasionally some Chinese Jasmine. The Yixing is not suitable for that.

My quest is to unravel the mystery of this Yixing pot and with a little help from you guys we may reveal it's Chan essence. :D
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby TIM » Feb 13th, '14, 19:34

Have Some Tea wrote:
TIM wrote:Are you intent to keep it and start using it, or are you thinking of selling it?


Hi Tim,

Why? Are you interested? :mrgreen:
I actually quite like the pot but I don't use it because my preferred choice of tea is Japanese Sencha, Hoijcha, Kukicha, Gyokuro and occasionally some Chinese Jasmine. The Yixing is not suitable for that.

My quest is to unravel the mystery of this Yixing pot and with a little help from you guys we may reveal it's Chan essence. :D


Possible 60's-70's replica of ROC period export pot. Good clay materials. Mass market production.

Stamp at the bottom?
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby chrl42 » Feb 13th, '14, 21:07

Teaism wrote:I am no expert in judging a pot from photo but just curious that the interior looks well used and badly stained , but the exterior looks quite new. The is no apparent stains to show the pot was being used for brewing tea. The filter is also of later design, typical filter design of 80s/90s pots...just curious about this interesting pot. Seems to be there are some details from different eras in the same pot. It does happen sometimes.

I am not sure and might be wrong, please take my comments as a pinch of salt.

Cheers!

+1

IMHO, possibly 80/90s, and can't go earlier than 60/70s.

As the record indicated, the golf-balll filters were used since 1970, in request by the Japanese.
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