Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!


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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby the_economist » Feb 17th, '14, 13:55

I'd love to find something like this floating around in my family. It is a beautiful pot, very nicely balanced, and the calligraphy is pretty.
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Have Some Tea » Feb 17th, '14, 16:56

kyarazen wrote:you mind if i repost your image somewhere else to ask if anyone's able to read the inscription and also the era?


Hi Kyarazen,

Thanks for your tips and generous sharing. The Google search from your posted Chinese characters opened a new window of comparison. My sweet persimmon pot seems to have sisters after all. And since there are few examples circulating on English sites it looks a Chinese love affair for these pots.

Btw how polite of you to ask permission for re-posting the photo's on other sites to continue the quest for artist and age. Off course you have permission! If I judge the last posts correctly I think that besides me there are a couple of other members who are interested in her history.

The photo's are low-res due to the restrictions on Teachat but I can send you some high-res ones if you want. Send me a PM to exchange emails if needed. :wink:

Many thanks -

Gassho,
Have some tea
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Have Some Tea » Feb 17th, '14, 17:33

MarshalN wrote:I can't make the name of the writer (looks like X生), but it's 浮雲一朵碧可油

As for the age of the pot, I don't think this is a 70s pot. To me it does look a bit earlier - the writing is very fine, and the work too. I've seen ball filters on earlier pots, although only on the bigger ones.


Hi MarshalN,

Thanks for sharing this new perspective about the style of workmanship, age direction and the ball filter. Based on your view the story about the pot passed down in my family could be correct after all. There is hope... if only for the trustworthiness of deceased relatives (RIP). :wink:

"The journey is long but with each step we take a wonderful perspective unfolds. When the last step is taken truth will illuminate, doubt and delusion becomes evident".

Gassho,
Have some tea
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Have Some Tea » Feb 17th, '14, 17:38

MarshalN wrote:It's normally the case that calligrapher and potter are not the same person


That's a very interesting addition. So this could be a collaboration between artists... Very interesting indeed. :mrgreen:
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby MarshalN » Feb 18th, '14, 00:56

Have Some Tea wrote:
MarshalN wrote:It's normally the case that calligrapher and potter are not the same person


That's a very interesting addition. So this could be a collaboration between artists... Very interesting indeed. :mrgreen:


Different skillset. Most of these potters don't have nice handwriting.
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby chrl42 » Feb 18th, '14, 01:40

MarshalN wrote:
Have Some Tea wrote:
MarshalN wrote:It's normally the case that calligrapher and potter are not the same person


That's a very interesting addition. So this could be a collaboration between artists... Very interesting indeed. :mrgreen:


Different skillset. Most of these potters don't have nice handwriting.

Indeed, during Qing dynasty, paying for carving was higher than 'making pot'...explains the status of potters wasn't high back then. I heard any potters were illiterate (actually many Chinese were, before the simplified Chinese was broadly used)

Antique Zhuni for example, potters were many while carving men (on pots' bottoms) were limited, to authenticate those carving styles of special eras were a keypoint when examine Zhuni or other Yixings...but that's some kind of level what those 'inner' people can only do.

Funny thing is that hierarchical tradition still remains in Yixing, name Tan Quan-hai, Bao Zhi-qiang, Li Chang-hong or Shen Han-sheng...those Grand Masters were caligrapher/carvers...it demonstrates the cultural level is held almost as high as the skills of making teapots, at least in Yixing pottery.

It could explain, Chinese society still borrow that old timey habits, but at a time it also explains they are seeing Yixing teapot beyond just teapot, they use that to lubricate Yixing teapot into artistic creation.

Very few potters are caligraphy/pottery masters, the most example is Gu Jing-zhou.
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby kyarazen » Feb 18th, '14, 05:29

Have Some Tea wrote:
Btw how polite of you to ask permission for re-posting the photo's on other sites to continue the quest for artist and age. Off course you have permission! If I judge the last posts correctly I think that besides me there are a couple of other members who are interested in her history.


just posted for inquiry and in a few minutes there's some info :)

蒋永西 (石生), 70s cultural revolution period.
you can find examples of his work here, carved by himself.
http://blog.cntv.cn/11369242-3976667.html
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Have Some Tea » Feb 18th, '14, 06:30

kyarazen wrote:
just posted for inquiry and in a few minutes there's some info :)

made by 蒋永西 (石生), 70s cultural revolution period.
you can find examples of his work here, pots made and carved by himself.
http://blog.cntv.cn/11369242-3976667.html



Whow! Nice work Kyarazen,

The calligraphy style resembles my pot indeed. Or am I blinded by the the wish for resemblance. I leave it up to you all to decide, what do think? The first two photo's are from the Chinese website that Kyarazen provided, the second two are from our debated subject.

marshalN wrote:Very few potters are caligraphy/pottery masters, the most example is Gu Jing-zhou.


Kyarazen found that this master (蒋永西 (石生)) was a potter and calligrapher. Does this mean that this is an important piece?
How long did this master live, was he well known and is there any record of his pottery styles (persimmons) that can be dated as early or later work? How would you write the name of this master in Western Roman script?

This quest is more fun by the moment. :D

Gassho,
Have some tea

Pottery and calligraphy example by: master 蒋永西 (石生)
(石生), 70s cultural revolution period-x1.jpg
(石生), 70s cultural revolution period-x1.jpg (70.24 KiB) Viewed 254 times
(石生), 70s cultural revolution period-x2.jpg
(石生), 70s cultural revolution period-x2.jpg (67.96 KiB) Viewed 254 times
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Have Some Tea » Feb 18th, '14, 06:33

The debated subject:
Antique Yixing Teapot 19th CE x1.jpg
Antique Yixing Teapot 19th CE x1.jpg (58.75 KiB) Viewed 257 times
Antique Yixing Teapot 19th CE x2.jpg
Antique Yixing Teapot 19th CE x2.jpg (65.52 KiB) Viewed 257 times
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby kyarazen » Feb 18th, '14, 07:24

The replies were in chinese so i didnt translate them well enough but additional input from another expert suggested jiang yong xi spent a lot of his time carving pots made by others.

Just passing on the info.
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby kyarazen » Feb 18th, '14, 07:30

Jiang yong xi (shi sheng) was born 1900s, year of death was debated, one version said he died in 1957, another version said he died in 1967 after start of cultural revolution as there were CR items bearing his carving style and name. Further speculation lead to a CR person possibly copying/mimicking his carving style. The pot is just as old as the filter design. Thats the summary of the info i got so far :)
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Drax » Feb 18th, '14, 07:55

The writing styles are similar, but I would say that they were done by different people.

In particular, I'm looking at the "left-right squiggles" -- on the master's pot, the left-right movement is very angular, or sharp. On your pot, the left-right movement is much more rounded (this comparison is a relative one).

But, that's just the writing style. I can't say anything about the pot itself.

And of course, I'm not anywhere near an expert in calligraphy, so take my estimation with a grain of salt! :D
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby chrl42 » Feb 18th, '14, 08:34

Some good ROC 'grassy' carvings...by Ren Gan-ting
Image
Image
Image

Gu Jing-zhou (made and carved by himself)
Image


totally out of a topic :mrgreen:
some nice carving can really hook you up :)
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby MarshalN » Feb 19th, '14, 02:16

kyarazen wrote:The replies were in chinese so i didnt translate them well enough but additional input from another expert suggested jiang yong xi spent a lot of his time carving pots made by others.

Just passing on the info.


Link please, where did you ask?
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Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby MarshalN » Feb 19th, '14, 02:18

Drax wrote:The writing styles are similar, but I would say that they were done by different people.

In particular, I'm looking at the "left-right squiggles" -- on the master's pot, the left-right movement is very angular, or sharp. On your pot, the left-right movement is much more rounded (this comparison is a relative one).

But, that's just the writing style. I can't say anything about the pot itself.

And of course, I'm not anywhere near an expert in calligraphy, so take my estimation with a grain of salt! :D


They don't look like the same hands at all. Whoever wrote the words on the original pot (Have some tea's) is quite fine and practiced hand. He's comfortable with the writing and it's very smooth, with nice approximation for how the words would look if it were written in ink. The other pot (the oen not owned by Have some tea's) is not even close.
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