Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!


Discussion on virtually any teaware related item.

Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Tead Off » Feb 19th, '14, 06:34

Not being Chinese nor a student of calligraphy may disqualify my opinion as baseless. But, yours doesn't look like the hand of a master to me, either. When I look at the work of Gu Jingzhou, I am immediately struck by the beauty of his line and the precise quality of his incised work. The edges of the incision must never be rough nor giving a chipped look to the fine edges.

I like your pot, but putting it into the category of 'master' pot is a big step.

Still waiting for someone to post a photo of a 'vetted' ROC pot with a ball filter. It would put to rest most doubts of the pot not being ROC.

You could also send good photos to one of the Chinese auction houses in Beijing or even Christie's or Sotheby's for an evaluation. We are just amateurs here. :D
User avatar
Tead Off
Vendor Member
 
Posts: 3396
Joined: Apr 1st, '0
Location: Bangkok

Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Have Some Tea » Feb 19th, '14, 07:42

MarshalN wrote:Just did some googling - nobody thinks 蒋永西 lived past around 1960s, so what makes you say this pot is from the 70s?

Seems like our 1920s/30s proposition is much more likely than the 70s or 80s one.


I think we are getting closer with the information provided and at the same time individual points are still in debate. May be a little structure will help us close some points. Please add bullet points if you feel there is something missing from the list.

Points currently under debate but not agreed upon are:

- The pottery artist
Are we all comfortable and sure that 蒋永西 is the master that made the pot? If not please add new findings. If so, what is his name in Roman writing?

If we agree, than we are looking at a manufacturing date ranged between 1900-1957. If my assumption is correct based on the link provide by MarshalN... (Note: My Chinese skills are zero, so I picked up what I can read) :wink:

How is this artist ranked, is he well known? Are there more examples of his persimmon pottery. If so, please post links so we can all compare and zero in on the details of his craftsmanship.

- The calligraphy artist
Kyarazen found that this master (蒋永西 (石生)) was a potter and calligrapher. May be hard to determine 100% but can we make assumptions on one hand at work in this creation?

If not, is there a way to link this master to a known collaboration with a calligraphy artist? Please let us know if this is typically not under evaluation when identifying/dating genuine Yixing artwork.

- The ball filter
Is there any (photo) evidence of a ball filter being used in the date range between <1900-1970? If so, can we determine a "date from" which ball filter (persimmon) pots were produced. If possible: by this artist.

(Note: Not when ball filters became common but the possible "starting" point)

Thanks again for all your energy and excitement. :D

Gassho,
Have Some Tea
User avatar
Have Some Tea
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Feb 4th, '1

Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Have Some Tea » Feb 19th, '14, 09:04

Tead Off wrote:Not being Chinese nor a student of calligraphy may disqualify my opinion as baseless. But, yours doesn't look like the hand of a master to me, either. When I look at the work of Gu Jingzhou, I am immediately struck by the beauty of his line and the precise quality of his incised work. The edges of the incision must never be rough nor giving a chipped look to the fine edges.

I like your pot, but putting it into the category of 'master' pot is a big step.

Still waiting for someone to post a photo of a 'vetted' ROC pot with a ball filter. It would put to rest most doubts of the pot not being ROC.


Hi Tead Off,

Thanks for your opinion. I want to be clear about the fact that at this point I'm not making any claims about the creation by any master whatsoever. But I can't reveal the excitement based on the information posted. If it results in only speculation that's fine. To me it's a learning process and more than I could hope for at the start of this quest. :wink:

The calligraphy on the works of Gu Jingzhou looks like another style. Like you mentioned, it's an incised style rather than the free hand calligraphy on our subject. Calligraphy has many styles and to compare two different ones is like coffee and tea.

Tead Off wrote:You could also send good photos to one of the Chinese auction houses in Beijing or even Christie's or Sotheby's for an evaluation. We are just amateurs here.


Thanks for the tip. But isn't that only possible if you offer an item for auction? I will consider the option if we run into a dead end, but I'm not looking at selling the family history unless it's an unfathomable important treasure. Everything has it's price, I guess. :mrgreen:

Do you know any experts on the subject that I can contact for a free and objective evaluation?

For now I'm tasting different Oolong's and select a possible partner for this lonely pot in need of warmth. I can imagine the story behind the pot will bring a spark to the tea ceremony. Like a Chateaux Margaux 1982 brings personality and attention to the dinner table at Christmas. :D
User avatar
Have Some Tea
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Feb 4th, '1

Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby MarshalN » Feb 19th, '14, 09:43

kyarazen wrote:Good good! Have Some Tea now has his definite answer now that you've helped him verify the fine details!! Its probably worth a pretty penny being the real calligraphy from the actual shi-sheng master! Congratulations :D



Oh please, spare us the sarcasm, nobody said it's worth a ton of money. ROC commercial big pots are a dime a dozen and unless it's made by someone really famous, they're not worth all that much. A new pot by someone semi-famous with a certificate is probably worth more in this stupid world of yixing.

Tead Off wrote:Not being Chinese nor a student of calligraphy may disqualify my opinion as baseless. But, yours doesn't look like the hand of a master to me, either. When I look at the work of Gu Jingzhou, I am immediately struck by the beauty of his line and the precise quality of his incised work. The edges of the incision must never be rough nor giving a chipped look to the fine edges.

I like your pot, but putting it into the category of 'master' pot is a big step.

Still waiting for someone to post a photo of a 'vetted' ROC pot with a ball filter. It would put to rest most doubts of the pot not being ROC.

You could also send good photos to one of the Chinese auction houses in Beijing or even Christie's or Sotheby's for an evaluation. We are just amateurs here. :D


No I don't have any pictures of such ball filter pots. I've seen some in person in Taiwan that look creditably old.
User avatar
MarshalN
 
Posts: 2100
Joined: Mar 15th, '

Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Tead Off » Feb 19th, '14, 10:04

Have Some Tea wrote:
Thanks for the tip. But isn't that only possible if you offer an item for auction? I will consider the option if we run into a dead end, but I'm not looking at selling the family history unless it's an unfathomable important treasure. Everything has it's price, I guess. :mrgreen:

Do you know any experts on the subject that I can contact for a free and objective evaluation?


Email to the Asian Art dept. at any major Christie's/Sothebys locations like N.Y, London, or H.K. Tell them your considering consigning the item for sale. Send good photos. They will tell you whether they are interested and what the estimates would be. You can ask them questions, too. Good luck.
User avatar
Tead Off
Vendor Member
 
Posts: 3396
Joined: Apr 1st, '0
Location: Bangkok

Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Chip » Feb 19th, '14, 14:27

Mod Post:

Dear TeaFriends,

Perhaps this discussion would be best as a new topic. I can split this discussion off of the Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic.

I feel we can have a better discussion sans sarcasm ... speaking plainly will serve the topic much more productively.

Chip
Immoderate TeaDrinker who happens to Moderate

User avatar
Chip
Mod/Admin
 
Posts: 22109
Joined: Apr 22nd, '
Location: Back in the TeaCave atop Mt. Fuji

Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Chip » Feb 19th, '14, 15:15

If I was to split this discussion off of the main topic, I would do it here I suppose ... around 5 pages back:

http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=11539&start=2085#p257258
User avatar
Chip
Mod/Admin
 
Posts: 22109
Joined: Apr 22nd, '
Location: Back in the TeaCave atop Mt. Fuji

Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Have Some Tea » Feb 20th, '14, 06:30

Chip wrote:Mod Post:

Dear TeaFriends,

Perhaps this discussion would be best as a new topic. I can split this discussion off of the Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic.

I feel we can have a better discussion sans sarcasm ... speaking plainly will serve the topic much more productively.

Chip
Immoderate TeaDrinker who happens to Moderate



Hi Chip,

Thanks for the moderation. :wink: It's oke by me but I don't want to speak on behalf of everyone who made a sustainable contribution to the quest.

So please let us know if you want to continue with the points I summarized here: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=11539&start=2160#p257720

If so, than I think it's best to split the topic.
If not, we let it rest.

I want to thank everybody for pouring their engery into this little pot. I'm going to further study all the input to see if I can solve some of the mystery. I will keep you posted. :wink:

Gassho,
Have some tea
User avatar
Have Some Tea
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Feb 4th, '1

Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby kikula » Feb 20th, '14, 18:21

Just be sure to tell us where it's split off to - I'm sure I'm not the only fascinated bystander here. :)
User avatar
kikula
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Jun 30th, '
Location: Maryland

Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby debunix » Feb 21st, '14, 00:03

I'm enjoying the discussion and think having it here might be appreciated by someone reading the topic in the future--yes, it's a very detailed discussion about one pot, but it also has brought up a lot of general information about Yixings, and how those in the know go about evaluating them, and the discussions that ensue when we show-off our teaware are a big part of the fun of it.
User avatar
debunix
 
Posts: 5019
Joined: Jan 10th, '
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby chrl42 » Feb 21st, '14, 05:17

Looking back to what I wrote, looks like I did something I didn't want to. Discounting is not something I or anyone in the right sense should commit.

I just wanted to follow that 以壶论壶-let pots discuss pots theory...I didn't focus too much and just saw the seal because I can't read the grass (or cursive) calligraphy. :)

Yixing teapot is like that, I've seen many teapots with wrong credits..which matters because it affects the prices. 90s was a nightmare, 2000 became better, after 2010 the situation became a lot better and so many informations revised to be right. :) Furthermore, it doesn't matter because good pot or quality doesn't change...and what's remained in one's memory or value is much more important than its mere date. How Yixing teapot became famous and gained its attention isn't for its backed up datas but they just impressed collectors.

Chip wanted to split this discussion, but I wonder if this conversation can see the end. Like Marshaln data stays in Taiwan..and what others can find out from internet (or even contact to auctions) are full of missing infos.

But that's just my opinion...either for me is just fine..I am all ears :)
User avatar
chrl42
 
Posts: 1518
Joined: Mar 22nd, '
Location: Beijing

Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Chip » Feb 21st, '14, 09:31

... when in doubt, I generally do nothing. And not receiving a decisive consensus here confirms my indecisiveness. :mrgreen:

Chip
User avatar
Chip
Mod/Admin
 
Posts: 22109
Joined: Apr 22nd, '
Location: Back in the TeaCave atop Mt. Fuji

Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby kyarazen » Feb 21st, '14, 11:44

chrl42 wrote:Chip wanted to split this discussion, but I wonder if this conversation can see the end. Like Marshaln data stays in Taiwan..and what others can find out from internet (or even contact to auctions) are full of missing infos.


why not inquire with your beijing based yixing collector society to fill in on the missing info to help the OP with his quest? i'm sure there are loads of experts where you are that can comment on this without batting an eye lid.
they should be able to say something on the clay too
kyarazen
 
Posts: 528
Joined: Sep 2nd, '1

Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby kyarazen » Feb 21st, '14, 11:56

Chip wrote: ... when in doubt, I generally do nothing. And not receiving a decisive consensus here confirms my indecisiveness. :mrgreen:

Chip

i would think it could be better to split the post, or to delete all my posts n this subject matter :wink:

it will make the thread a lot neater, and if theres a need for me to correspond on behalf on the various collector groups that i've contacted, i'll take it to private with Have Some Tea via private messaging
kyarazen
 
Posts: 528
Joined: Sep 2nd, '1

Re: Official/Different Yixing Show Off Topic!

Postby Have Some Tea » Feb 21st, '14, 17:49

Hi guys,

Thanks for your opinion about splitting or not.
I agree with Chip to leave it here; for non active bystanders to learn something from the details discussed. Yes, some comments are more directed to the quest than others but that's oke in an open discussion. :wink:

Be my guest if some of you with direct personal access to an expert and/or collector(s) feel the need to bring the item to their attention.

My determination to find answers to our discussed questions remains and has grown with each angle added to the debate. I will study all the options provided. When I'm on to something tangible I will let you know.

And now I will,
Have Some Tea :mrgreen:
User avatar
Have Some Tea
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Feb 4th, '1

PreviousNext

Instant Messenger

Permissions
You cannot post new topics
You cannot reply to topics
You cannot edit your posts
You cannot delete your posts
You cannot post attachments
Navigation