Today's MatchaWan :D (new name, but tea's the same)


Discussion on virtually any teaware related item.

Today's MatchaWan :D (new name, but tea's the same)

Postby Pig Hog » Apr 24th, '14, 09:49

Fuut wrote:
Pig Hog wrote:Interesting. I was unaware of the 'rules' regarding level of decoration. There must be some kind of spectrum, so what makes a bowl suitable for both types of tea?

Also, where is the line drawn between winter only and all year round?

I'm very tempted by a hagi yaki chawan I've seen on artistic nippon, which I might treat myself to if I don't come across anything in Tokyo.


As far as i know, winter type tea bowls are often higher than they are wide (called tsutsu chawan), to keep tea hot longer, and in the summer there is ceremony for outside (open air), that either uses smaller (nodate bowls) or shallow bowls so tea cools faster. However I'm not expert myself, so don't take it as fact:)


That, I know (but thanks for the response); what I'm interested in is where the lines blur -- how high-sided does a tsutsu chawan have to be to be considered for winter use only? How shallow does a summer-only hira chawan have to be? How do you recognise a chawan that's in between the two?

Likewise, how decorated is too decorated for koicha? How plain is too plain for usucha and how do you judge what's acceptable for both?

Perhaps this should have it's own thread, or is here still ok?
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Today's MatchaWan :D (new name, but tea's the same)

Postby blairswhitaker » Apr 24th, '14, 10:15

Pig hog here are some guidelines. http://wiki.chado.no/Chawan

I generally think of koicha as more somber and formal, while usucha is a little more light hearted, and thus a bowl ought to reflect these notions to some degree, if that makes any sense.

Keep in mind that EVERYTHING in Chado has a rule, but after time the rules become more of a guideline. It's sort of like writing a poem, you know the structure of the stanzas and the language to use but the choice of words is up to you, and of course the audience (your guest) will find certain poems a lot more pleasing than others based on your abilities.

However if you are never going to have your Chawan in any kind of chaji or chakai then you can buy and use anything you want. I would try and observe some simple physics, i.e. a tall, narrow, thick bowl will retain heat and a wide, shallow thin bowl will dissipate heat. But even those things in our modern world of climate control have less impact.


I personally can't tell you a whole lot more as I'm just a humble beginner.
Last edited by blairswhitaker on Apr 24th, '14, 10:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Today's MatchaWan :D (new name, but tea's the same)

Postby blairswhitaker » Apr 24th, '14, 10:16

John it is karatsu
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Re: Today's MatchaWan :D (new name, but tea's the same)

Postby JBaymore » Apr 24th, '14, 10:59

blairswhitaker wrote:Keep in mind that EVERYTHING in Chado has a rule, but after time the rules become more of a guideline. It's sort of like writing a poem, you know the structure of the stanzas and the language to use but the choice of words is up to you, and of course the audience (your guest) will find certain poems a lot more pleasing than others based on your abilities.


Bingo.


And thanks on the remider that is if in fact Karatsu. Serious "brain-fa%$.

best,

...............john
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Re: Today's MatchaWan :D (new name, but tea's the same)

Postby Fuut » Apr 24th, '14, 11:02

In regards to the above.

Its hard to really put lines or limits to certain aspects. I think that like stated above on the second last page; about decorations not being appropriated in certain ceremonies are simply stated as such because any illustration is applied later thus unnecessary and probably interpreted to be confusing or distorting the pure (sometimes wabi sabi) nature of drinking from a cup. Or perhaps illustration did not fit in with other style utensils.

Other than that, i believe that tea ceremony included a lot of politics in the days of old, and was used for ploys and relations. One perhaps didn't want to inject a conversation while having own thoughts on hand? Or perhaps it was the a style in a certain time that had no favors from major tea masters. Again don't take it as fact.
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Today's MatchaWan :D (new name, but tea's the same)

Postby Pig Hog » Apr 24th, '14, 12:40

Thanks. I think it's always good to be aware of things like this even if you don't follow it during your day to day tea consumption.

Chado has interested me for a long time -- I know there's an urasenke branch, not too far from me but I just don't have the time to investigate further. Perhaps one day, though.
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Re: Today's MatchaWan :D (new name, but tea's the same)

Postby rdl » Apr 24th, '14, 13:43

blairswhitaker wrote:please forgive me if this is to simple an explanation.

blairswhitaker,
simple or not, i appreciate what you're sharing in the context of your studies, and your personal tastes.
i think i should have added to my question, thinking of some hagi potters i know of, they make practice chawan and i was thinking you'd be using something like this either made by a kyo-yaki or raku-yaki potter. only beecause i am making the assumption you're in kyoto and so you're whisking and drinking only kyoto :lol:
one last question if i may. the bowls you have are ido shape. will you do the ceremony with both ido and cylinder shaped bowls. how is shape determined when choosing the bowl to use?
thanks again.
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Today's MatchaWan :D (new name, but tea's the same)

Postby blairswhitaker » Apr 24th, '14, 18:39

Fuut, the history of Chado is complex and yes often been politically motivated. Certain Oiemotos had strong influence and set and changed standards, but their is such a strong reverence for tradition. I don't know where you live but in the United States the reverence for tradition is not comparable, the history and culture just does not exist, so many people get the notion that "tea masters" just go around doing the ceremony as they please, but above all else they really do pay homage to the guest and the tradition.


Rdl, in our daily practice we do use kyo-yaki, raku-yaki, hagi-yaki, karatsu, seto, hoi-an, oribe, ect.... The list goes on and on. The Sensei try and expose us to as much dogu as possible.

Kyoto in many ways is the center of traditional culture in Japan, so one can find traditional bowls of any style available for purchase, however I do seem to see a lot of raku, hagi, karatsu, oribe, kyo-yaki, and mishima, more than other styles. At lest for Chawan that is.

We do the ceremony with every shape of bowl depending on the season, the specific temae one is doing will often dictate the bowl, again those are just two bowls that I have gotten in my first month here, I will add more as time and budget allows. However I have access to many bowls in our dogu storage rooms. It is defiantly possible to use both an Ido and a closed wall Chawan in the same ceremony without breaking any "rules", so that is not a problem. But shape is generally determined by the season, the temae, the type of tea, and personal preference.
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Today's MatchaWan :D (new name, but tea's the same)

Postby blairswhitaker » Apr 25th, '14, 09:05

To keep this thread on task here is my matchawan of the evening, kitano no mukashi, please chime in on your thoughts about this bowl.

Image

Image
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Today's MatchaWan :D (new name, but tea's the same)

Postby Pig Hog » Apr 25th, '14, 10:12

Beautiful bowl -- I like the size and the thickness of the rim. The pattern looks almost like granite. Would like to see the other side!
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Re: Today's MatchaWan :D (new name, but tea's the same)

Postby rdl » Apr 27th, '14, 12:52

blairswhitaker wrote:To keep this thread on task here is my matchawan of the evening, kitano no mukashi, please chime in on your thoughts about this bowl.

blairswhitaker,
just a thought - you may want to start a separate thread of your year - so all your posts are in one thread and easy to access in the future as well.
i am trying to get the scale of the chawan and a better feel for it. i have my own personal preference; any tea ware that seems to solid, unbreakable so to speak, i am less attracted to use. that fragility of fired clay has always been a feature i look for. not porcelain thinness, just the play of solidity and fragility. but the texture and deep glaze of this chawan are very appealing. and i imagine in the hands has a very tactile presence.
will you provide any more information?
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Today's MatchaWan :D (new name, but tea's the same)

Postby blairswhitaker » May 1st, '14, 10:36

New kuro raku nodate Chawan.
Having some miyako no shiro from horaido.

"But I thought you said raku wasn't appropriate for usucha?"

Rightly so, but this is one of those exceptions to the rule. When using a nodate raku bowl doing chabako it is OK to make usucha in it.
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Today's MatchaWan :D (new name, but tea's the same)

Postby blairswhitaker » May 5th, '14, 06:40

This past week ant the start of this one has had a few prominent themes with the most obvious being raku.

I think many people find it a challenge to appreciate the subtlety of kuro raku, after all at first glance these bowls all seem to look rather similar, and unfortunately outside of the tearoom they seem to loose much of their charm.

However inside the tearoom, with soft early morning light, the kettle beginning its increasingly louder whisper and the sweet vanilla smell of hot sumi, tatami straw, and incense, these bowls couldn't be more pleasing to look at, hold, and drink from. Everything is reduced down to the calm black enso.

Here is my latest acquisition in my raku collection. The tea is mikyo-no-mukashi and it is sublime.

Image
Image
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Image
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Today's MatchaWan :D (new name, but tea's the same)

Postby blairswhitaker » May 5th, '14, 06:42

Here is another raku bowl, a aka raku nodate Chawan. This one stacks into the kuro nodate for my chabako set. Image
Last edited by blairswhitaker on May 5th, '14, 06:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Today's MatchaWan :D (new name, but tea's the same)

Postby blairswhitaker » May 5th, '14, 06:43

And here is a aka raku with a Fuji depiction that I drank out of at sou-sou today.
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