Surprisingly, despite the numerous teaware discussions going on here on TeaChat, most TeaChatters indicated they were not actively shopping for teaware. I guess just a lot of ooooooing and ahhhhhing. You can still vote and discuss this topic.
Welcome to a FRIDAY edition of TeaDay, everyone. I hope we can get together and brew, then share what is in our cups today, all day.
Today's TeaPoll and discussion topic come on the heals of my first tasting of an Organic/Fair Trade Certified green tea this past week. I realized I did not really know much on the subject. So, I wondered whether many others considered whether their teas were FTC? How important, or unimportant is it to you? Do you think you need to become more aware of the movement?
Since FTC is a newer concept to many of us, I include this link, thanx to Spacesamurai.
Fair Trade Certified Overview
I am looking forward to sharing TeaDay with everyone. Bottoms up.
Aug 22nd, '08, 02:10
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Aug 22nd, '08, 02:43
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Geekgirl
I'm afraid I don't understand the question: "ring true?"
I know that I don't fully trust that "fair trade certified" is meaningful when it comes to tea. I think that many tea farms that have not paid all of the proper certifying officials, inspectors and organizations are still run ethically, with both farmers and workers paid prevailing fair trade rates. Granted, there are only a couple groups offering certification for the certifiers. The one linked gives a stamp of approval to 20 different certifying companies. There are other oversight agencies as well.
I feel the same way about "organic."
In addition, once you step outside the U.S., I believe it is a simple task to pay someone to "certify" your farm, and provide a counterfeit verification.
I agree wholeheartedly with the principles of fair trade, however, I think the implementation is still in its infancy and still rather meaningless in most cases.
It's 11:40pm here, so technically still my Thursday TeaDay. I have been enjoying the Teamaster's Baozhong from the oolong pass box. A truly superior oolong, and what a treat. I thought I would call it quits before it gave out, but on the 11th steep it seems to be at an end. 3.5g in 100ml. Wonderful.
(why oh why did I host this on Photobucket? PB slaughtered the image quality. bleh.)
Sal, matcha? I think that's the first matcha photo I've seen from you. Am I a bad influence?
Love that table runner, and it's a good thing you live cross-country, or I might break in and steal that sweet little chawan.
I know that I don't fully trust that "fair trade certified" is meaningful when it comes to tea. I think that many tea farms that have not paid all of the proper certifying officials, inspectors and organizations are still run ethically, with both farmers and workers paid prevailing fair trade rates. Granted, there are only a couple groups offering certification for the certifiers. The one linked gives a stamp of approval to 20 different certifying companies. There are other oversight agencies as well.
I feel the same way about "organic."
In addition, once you step outside the U.S., I believe it is a simple task to pay someone to "certify" your farm, and provide a counterfeit verification.
I agree wholeheartedly with the principles of fair trade, however, I think the implementation is still in its infancy and still rather meaningless in most cases.
It's 11:40pm here, so technically still my Thursday TeaDay. I have been enjoying the Teamaster's Baozhong from the oolong pass box. A truly superior oolong, and what a treat. I thought I would call it quits before it gave out, but on the 11th steep it seems to be at an end. 3.5g in 100ml. Wonderful.
(why oh why did I host this on Photobucket? PB slaughtered the image quality. bleh.)
Sal, matcha? I think that's the first matcha photo I've seen from you. Am I a bad influence?
Love that table runner, and it's a good thing you live cross-country, or I might break in and steal that sweet little chawan.
Last edited by Geekgirl on Aug 22nd, '08, 02:46, edited 2 times in total.
Aug 22nd, '08, 02:44
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Space Samurai
Here's an official video about Fair Trade.
I must've seen this damn thing at least 20 times over the last two years during various presentations, but it has some good information.
Fair Trade is very important to me. Seeing Rishi's Travelogue on their Fair Trade project in Yunnan, China is what turned tea from just a hobby to a passion for me.
I buy FTC tea (and coffee and sugar) whenver the option is available, which mostly includes my black tea, puerh, and some Chinese greens. Outside of India, there just isn't any FTC oolong to speak of. It would appear that the prices tea farmers in China can get for high quality oolong are higher than Fair Trade premiums, so there isn't as great a need. Benjamin from Rishi had interesting things to say about that. You can read his impromptu but insightful response here: Where is all the Fair Trade Oolong?
Thanks for bringing this up, Chip.
I must've seen this damn thing at least 20 times over the last two years during various presentations, but it has some good information.
Fair Trade is very important to me. Seeing Rishi's Travelogue on their Fair Trade project in Yunnan, China is what turned tea from just a hobby to a passion for me.
I buy FTC tea (and coffee and sugar) whenver the option is available, which mostly includes my black tea, puerh, and some Chinese greens. Outside of India, there just isn't any FTC oolong to speak of. It would appear that the prices tea farmers in China can get for high quality oolong are higher than Fair Trade premiums, so there isn't as great a need. Benjamin from Rishi had interesting things to say about that. You can read his impromptu but insightful response here: Where is all the Fair Trade Oolong?
Thanks for bringing this up, Chip.
Aug 22nd, '08, 02:57
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Space Samurai
Obviously as a supporter of FT, I dissagree with this, but it is a response I have seen often.GeekgirlUnveiled wrote:In addition, once you step outside the U.S., I believe it is a simple task to pay someone to "certify" your farm, and provide a counterfeit verification.
I agree wholeheartedly with the principles of fair trade, however, I think the implementation is still in its infancy and still rather meaningless in most cases.
And my answer always is, "so what if it is?"
Fair Trade makes a difference. That's a fact. Even if there's corruption involved all the way up to the top, even if Fair Trade is only 20% effective of what it could be, or even just 10% Fair Trade is still making a difference. Doing nothing isn't.
Sure, you could tell me that all the things I do are "meaningless." buying Fair Trade or organic products, recycling, eating less meat, riding my bicycle instead of using a car. But I choose to follow Ghandi's example, and as he said, "Whatever you do may seem insignificant, but it is most important that you do it."
Sorry, I can get a little passionate about this. I promis I'm done preachin' for the night.
Aug 22nd, '08, 08:31
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G'morning, folks!
I hope to see the FTC teas become more available, of course!
Just back from a trade show and it is so good to be home! My vmail and email are full to the brim, though.
Nice chawan, Sal! How much tea ware do you have at your disposal? I'm envious! I believe those are clown feet in the background! (shudder)
Missed, y'all.
Happy Friday!
I hope to see the FTC teas become more available, of course!
Just back from a trade show and it is so good to be home! My vmail and email are full to the brim, though.
Nice chawan, Sal! How much tea ware do you have at your disposal? I'm envious! I believe those are clown feet in the background! (shudder)
Missed, y'all.
Happy Friday!
Perhaps 'all other things being equal,' but that's a big 'if.'
Buying from Japan, I think we can be reasonably sure that the workers are well treated. It's really just China and India to worry about, and I can't think of much reason to trust a 'fair trade' or 'organic' label from China. Besides, I have read that tea workers in China, at least in Yunnan, can earn relatively high salaries around harvest time.
I think what would be more useful is a general charity to help Tea Workers in any locales in which they are taken advantage of or mistreated. But again, operating a charity that serves people living in a Totalitarian Regime is not always an easy task, as we all saw from the Myanmar crisis a few months ago.
Buying from Japan, I think we can be reasonably sure that the workers are well treated. It's really just China and India to worry about, and I can't think of much reason to trust a 'fair trade' or 'organic' label from China. Besides, I have read that tea workers in China, at least in Yunnan, can earn relatively high salaries around harvest time.
I think what would be more useful is a general charity to help Tea Workers in any locales in which they are taken advantage of or mistreated. But again, operating a charity that serves people living in a Totalitarian Regime is not always an easy task, as we all saw from the Myanmar crisis a few months ago.
I will select fair trade and organic products over non, whenever I can afford it. I'm skeptical, like Geekgirl, but hopefully one day we can all live in peace and harmony with bunnies and rainbows, right?
One of my professors was extremely skeptical of fair trade (he's the director of African Studies at my university). I've been reading a few books on tea through Google Books, and they paint such an idealistic picture, as though all these tea plantation workers are just as passionate about tea as we are. It's really kind of ridiculous, when the reality is that for some of them, they're just getting by, can be working in dangerous conditions, and some places allow children to work even when the government officially condemns child labour. (I know this was the case for some cocoa plantations in West Africa, for example.)
People in general are unwilling to pay a lot more for things that have been cheap for so long, due to extremely cheap labour. A litmus test could be to compare tea from a country with cheap labour to tea grown in Cornwall, UK!
One of my professors was extremely skeptical of fair trade (he's the director of African Studies at my university). I've been reading a few books on tea through Google Books, and they paint such an idealistic picture, as though all these tea plantation workers are just as passionate about tea as we are. It's really kind of ridiculous, when the reality is that for some of them, they're just getting by, can be working in dangerous conditions, and some places allow children to work even when the government officially condemns child labour. (I know this was the case for some cocoa plantations in West Africa, for example.)
People in general are unwilling to pay a lot more for things that have been cheap for so long, due to extremely cheap labour. A litmus test could be to compare tea from a country with cheap labour to tea grown in Cornwall, UK!
Aug 22nd, '08, 11:35
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jogrebe
All other things being equal, yes, but the problem is that that is not the case. Maybe I'm just shopping at the wrong places but the few fair trade teas that I've tried before were just paying more money for a lower quality product. While I'm all for promotion of justice, until the quality catches up to the non certified fair trade teas I'm just going to continue to go on faith of what I've heard of people who saw the puerh production line firsthand and reported that everybody seemed happy and well off by the Chinese standard.
John Grebe
"You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me."
~C. S. Lewis
"You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me."
~C. S. Lewis
Aug 22nd, '08, 11:50
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neowolf
The question is what difference. If it's only a little effective due to corruption, then it could very well be making things worse. As conditions have improved a little bit, while the perception of the negative aspects have been neatly swept under the rug thanks to a simple little label.Space Samurai wrote:And my answer always is, "so what if it is?"
Fair Trade makes a difference. That's a fact. Even if there's corruption involved all the way up to the top, even if Fair Trade is only 20% effective of what it could be, or even just 10% Fair Trade is still making a difference. Doing nothing isn't.
Sure, you could tell me that all the things I do are "meaningless." buying Fair Trade or organic products, recycling, eating less meat, riding my bicycle instead of using a car. But I choose to follow Ghandi's example, and as he said, "Whatever you do may seem insignificant, but it is most important that you do it."
Sorry, I can get a little passionate about this. I promis I'm done preachin' for the night.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a big supported of fair trade myself. I just don't think it should be glorified to the extreme. It still needs work itself and we shouldn't ignore that or the original point gets killed.
I select fair trade and organic products whenever possible.
Sal, gorgeous pic, love that runner! What beautiful shades or purple!
But I'm with Cyn on the clown feet {{shudder}} they gotta go.
A tighter crop is indeed called for.
Geek, your pic is just gorgeous, I can't imagine it looking even better.
Definitely saving that one to my wallpaper file.
A beautiful estate darjeeling to start my day, this one is my current
favorite - Glenburn Wiry Vintage - TeaSource.
.
Sal, gorgeous pic, love that runner! What beautiful shades or purple!
But I'm with Cyn on the clown feet {{shudder}} they gotta go.
A tighter crop is indeed called for.
Geek, your pic is just gorgeous, I can't imagine it looking even better.
Definitely saving that one to my wallpaper file.
A beautiful estate darjeeling to start my day, this one is my current
favorite - Glenburn Wiry Vintage - TeaSource.
.
Aug 22nd, '08, 13:18
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GeekgirlUnveiled wrote: I might break in and steal that sweet little chawan.
CynTEAa wrote: I believe those are clown feet in the background! (shudder)
Cyn and Vic – Sorry to frighten you sensitive girls with the clown, but as I have no fu dogs I must rely on clowny to protect my matcha from the likes of Geekgirl! He is the wrathful clown who guards my tea.Victoria wrote:But I'm with Cyn on the clown feet {{shudder}}
In my cup, gong fu style Panyang Congou per recommendation of Orguz on Tuesday in this same thread. Orguz knows his stuff: it really perks up this average, inexpensive China black. This session the tea even seems to reveal some subtle flavors.
Largely hanging out today, using Tropical Storm Fay as an excuse, but she has been such a pussy cat. Guess I'll have to go to work at least for a few minutes.
Fair Trade **fumbles with notes** ......ah, sure, guilty as charged!...... No doubt, no conviction, no backbone, not sure … err, what everyone else said too. I want a lawyer!
http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... w=previousGeekgirlUnveiled wrote:
Sal, matcha? I think that's the first matcha photo I've seen from you. Am I a bad influence?
i know i've seen salsero and matcha before. i wish i could frame it and put it on my art wall.
as far as fair trade go. i think if there's a chance it could be making things a little better for labourers it's worth a shot. otherwise i don't believe much in certifications either. it's like calling chickens free range.