Yixing clay that is suitable for yancha

[bonescwa]

I wouldn't be so dismissive of gaiwans, often they are the better choice than most yixing (available to the western market at a sub-$500 price).

[steanze]

It is only my opinion, but it could be very misleading and confusing to judge or buy a pot by clay names. The names are just a marketing tool and a general description of its colour. As a beginner, I would simply say red pot, brown pot or black pot etc.

+1, it makes a lot of difference whether it is a red pot or a brown pot. qingshuini vs zini does not make much difference. Jiang po ni though is orange-ish and behaves more like brown pots, so there might be something to clay names after all. However I agree that as a beginner the clay names don't matter so much and that they are mostly used as a marketing tool

[steanze]

I wouldn't be so dismissive of gaiwans, often they are the better choice than most yixing (available to the western market at a sub-$500 price).

yes gaiwans do fine for yancha. A small porcelain pot might be even better because you can pour hot water on it more easily (as long as the pot pours fast). It also depends on your preferences, if you prefer a thicker brew yixing can be better (especially "brown" and/or lower fired clays), if you prefer to keep a bit more aromas but have a thinner body the gaiwan will be great. What vessel you want to use also depends on your brewing style (leaf/water ratio), with a more porous pot you can push the tea a bit more if you want (a bit more leaf or slightly longer infusions) IMO

[tingjunkie]

I'd be careful to not get too hung up on red vs purple/brown clay and make any rules about that comparison. Truly great clay will perform well for darn near any tea. The following pot makes a phenomenal round of green TGY, and preserves the higher notes and aromas of the floral tea almost just as well as a high quality higher fired hong ni pot of similar size and shape. In addition to preserving those higher notes, the teapot also makes the mouthfeel better than the hong ni pot, and seems to increase the lingering aftertastes better. I've even had green TGY from a beautiful duan ni pot which came out amazingly well. Great clay is great clay, regardless of the color. That being said, great clay does not come from $50 pots nowadays, but there's nothing wrong with experimenting with a decent $50 starter pot to begin to learn a little about how clay changes tea.

5171038768_14cfa1630a.jpg (21.43 KiB) Viewed 1687 times

[steanze]

Interesting I never ever had good green tieguanyin from a brown clay pot. Nor from a duanni pot.
For my taste, it is almost true that great clay fits every tea, but not because different types of great clay have the same effect - because different clays have different effects on the tea, but there is not just one right way to brew a certain type of tea. So while usually zhuni/hongni have a different effect on aged pu erh than zini/qingshuini, both effects can highlight different aspects of the tea that are all worth appreciating. The almost comes from the fact that I never encountered a zini/qingshuini/duanni pot that does well with green TGY and with Taiwanese gaoshan, and I do think I tried with zini/qingshuini/duanni of pretty good quality. So that makes me think that perhaps we have different tastes? Do you find that all the good quality zini/qingshuini/duanni pots you have brew good green TGY?

[the_economist]

The pot TJ posted looks like it has very high clay content and very little sand. Plus it looks high fired.

[tingjunkie]

So that makes me think that perhaps we have different tastes? Do you find that all the good quality zini/qingshuini/duanni pots you have brew good green TGY?

Of course taste is subjective and varies by person. The pot I posted above is of rare quality, so no, most of my purple clay pots would not handle floral teas that well. The duan ni pot I referenced is of even higher quality (and does not belong to me). There are indeed trends in Yixing based on clay color, especially if we limit discussion to clays mined in the last 20 years, but overall, color means very little compared to quality and firing level in my opinion.

[tingjunkie]

The pot TJ posted looks like it has very high clay content and very little sand. Plus it looks high fired.

I guess it depends on what we mean by "sand." The pot above is actually pure sand- a very nice example of pure zisha. A lot of times I think sand in Yixing is talked about in terms of actual grains of sand or ground up pieces of broken pots added to a plain Yixing clay (such as the second pot in this post from Maitre Tea http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 30#p129149), or in terms of very fine naturally sandy purple and red clays that are highly prized.

[steanze]

Yes, there are pots with added sand (sometimes done for zhuni to increase the resistance to temperature gradients) like this:

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a63 ... k1zyik.jpg

And pots that have naturally coarser grain like this:
http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a63 ... 5m8kv4.jpg
and especially this:
http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a63 ... mmllqw.jpg

I think what the_economist meant is that the pot you posted has a finer grain, more like this (correct me if I am wrong the_economist ):

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a63 ... 8afnrd.jpg

Sorry for the bad lighting but I don't have many better options at this time of the day (night)...

[steanze]

The pot TJ posted looks like it has very high clay content and very little sand. Plus it looks high fired.

Yes, I'd expect it to preserve the aroma better than the average for zini pots, but probably not as well as a xiao hong ni or zhuni unless they are very very low fired. But the advantages in terms of body might outweigh that and at that point it might become an issue of personal preference. And also I am not Gu Jinzhou so I may be wrong

[steanze]

The pot I posted above is of rare quality

Yes it does look like a really good pot

[kyarazen]

pot shape, thermal properties, and size over that of clay material probably.

if you use a pot for years or even decades, the interior may no longer be as "catalytic" as it should be, as the pores get filled in with tea stains (not necessarily visible). recently i cleaned out a 60's pot with a clean looking interior, but after rinsing with some citric acid and then soaking it into bicarbo for a couple of hours.. brown juice came out!

[AT333]

pot shape, thermal properties, and size over that of clay material probably.

if you use a pot for years or even decades, the interior may no longer be as "catalytic" as it should be, as the pores get filled in with tea stains (not necessarily visible). recently i cleaned out a 60's pot with a clean looking interior, but after rinsing with some citric acid and then soaking it into bicarbo for a couple of hours.. brown juice came out!

Some of my pot stains are really very persistent even with bicarbonate soda. I am curious what type or brand of citric acid you use for your pot. Are they available commercially? Is there any other ways or option to tackle stubborn stain?

[steanze]

pot shape, thermal properties, and size over that of clay material probably.

if you use a pot for years or even decades, the interior may no longer be as "catalytic" as it should be, as the pores get filled in with tea stains (not necessarily visible). recently i cleaned out a 60's pot with a clean looking interior, but after rinsing with some citric acid and then soaking it into bicarbo for a couple of hours.. brown juice came out!

I saw the nice discussion on thermal properties on your blog I agree that heat retention is very important and shape and size can both affect it (they both alter the surface to volume ratio). One question I have about that though is this: it seems that there is more room to alter the heat to which the tea is exposed by adjusting water temperature, steeping time and/or pouring hot water on the pot. Unless there's reason to believe that a monotonic decrease in temperature with a specific shape is very important for the outcome, it seems that suboptimal heat retention of a pot for a certain tea would be easier to remedy than undesired effects of the clay. What are your thoughts?

[the_economist]

I'm probably just confusing terms, don't mind me! I think TJ and Steanze are right, that TGY pot is very fine sand.