Yixing dedication criteria - what clay/shape for what tea?

[t4texas]

Usually people like relatively flat shapes for dan cong, and logistically, pots with a wide opening are very useful. Also, since it's from the Chaozhou area, Chaozhou / Shantou clay pots are very appropriate for this type of tea. Imen @ Tea Obsession should have some for relatively reasonable prices, and Jing can find some on special order, though they will likely charge a lot for it. I have a supposedly 1970s flat oil-lamp shaped zisha pot (with a wide opening) which I use for Dan Cong, as well as a slightly taller Chaozhou pot. I can't detect that much of a difference in the taste, but if I had to describe any difference, I'd say that the tea is a little mellower and less bright in the zisha pot (as you'd expect).

I have noticed several of your posts mentioning Chaozhou pots, but am not sure what they look like. Do you have a photo? When you say "Chaozhou / Shantou clay pots" above, are you refering to a specific clay? Is this considered a Zisha clay or something else?

[betta]

I have noticed several of your posts mentioning Chaozhou pots, but am not sure what they look like. Do you have a photo? When you say "Chaozhou / Shantou clay pots" above, are you refering to a specific clay? Is this considered a Zisha clay or something else?

Nope, it's not zisha, rather it is a local clay originated in southern china Nanfang. Have a look at this one. In fact it's used quite often in dishonest business practice to trick buyers who look for hong ni and zhuni clay pot.
It can be used to brew decent cups of tea.

[t4texas]

Lots of interesting ideas in this topic, and lots of seemingly contradictory information, all from good sources. All I have been able to figure out to do is to wing it and try different teas on a pot and see what happens. Still keeping all the collective wisdom in mind.

I have a larger Yixing, round bodied, about 330 ml. Actually I have two and use the first one for Western style brewing of Shu and it works okay. I have been considering using the second one for western brewing of black or red teas. It would be efficient if I could use this one for several black or red teas and would appreciate any ideas about whether or not that would work well. If so, what teas? On the other hand, I have some Dian Hong Imperial and have considered dedicating it to that. Also open to any other options for matching this pot.

Ideas? Opinion? Experiences?

[chrl42]

Lots of interesting ideas in this topic, and lots of seemingly contradictory information, all from good sources. All I have been able to figure out to do is to wing it and try different teas on a pot and see what happens. Still keeping all the collective wisdom in mind.

I have a larger Yixing, round bodied, about 330 ml. Actually I have two and use the first one for Western style brewing of Shu and it works okay. I have been considering using the second one for western brewing of black or red teas. It would be efficient if I could use this one for several black or red teas and would appreciate any ideas about whether or not that would work well. If so, what teas? On the other hand, I have some Dian Hong Imperial and have considered dedicating it to that. Also open to any other options for matching this pot.

Ideas? Opinion? Experiences?

Round bodied 330 ml yixing is what I would use for Hong Cha :O

[t4texas]

Lots of interesting ideas in this topic, and lots of seemingly contradictory information, all from good sources. All I have been able to figure out to do is to wing it and try different teas on a pot and see what happens. Still keeping all the collective wisdom in mind.

I have a larger Yixing, round bodied, about 330 ml. Actually I have two and use the first one for Western style brewing of Shu and it works okay. I have been considering using the second one for western brewing of black or red teas. It would be efficient if I could use this one for several black or red teas and would appreciate any ideas about whether or not that would work well. If so, what teas? On the other hand, I have some Dian Hong Imperial and have considered dedicating it to that. Also open to any other options for matching this pot.

Ideas? Opinion? Experiences?

Round bodied 330 ml yixing is what I would use for Hong Cha :O

Do you mean like Yixing Hong Cha?

[chrl42]

Lots of interesting ideas in this topic, and lots of seemingly contradictory information, all from good sources. All I have been able to figure out to do is to wing it and try different teas on a pot and see what happens. Still keeping all the collective wisdom in mind.

I have a larger Yixing, round bodied, about 330 ml. Actually I have two and use the first one for Western style brewing of Shu and it works okay. I have been considering using the second one for western brewing of black or red teas. It would be efficient if I could use this one for several black or red teas and would appreciate any ideas about whether or not that would work well. If so, what teas? On the other hand, I have some Dian Hong Imperial and have considered dedicating it to that. Also open to any other options for matching this pot.

Ideas? Opinion? Experiences?

Round bodied 330 ml yixing is what I would use for Hong Cha :O

Do you mean like Yixing Hong Cha?

Hong (red) Cha means red tea in China, black tea in western world.

[t4texas]

Lots of interesting ideas in this topic, and lots of seemingly contradictory information, all from good sources. All I have been able to figure out to do is to wing it and try different teas on a pot and see what happens. Still keeping all the collective wisdom in mind.

I have a larger Yixing, round bodied, about 330 ml. Actually I have two and use the first one for Western style brewing of Shu and it works okay. I have been considering using the second one for western brewing of black or red teas. It would be efficient if I could use this one for several black or red teas and would appreciate any ideas about whether or not that would work well. If so, what teas? On the other hand, I have some Dian Hong Imperial and have considered dedicating it to that. Also open to any other options for matching this pot.

Ideas? Opinion? Experiences?

Round bodied 330 ml yixing is what I would use for Hong Cha :O

Do you mean like Yixing Hong Cha?

Hong (red) Cha means red tea in China, black tea in western world.

Duh. Guess I haven't had enough red tea yet this morning. Thanks, Charles.

[brad4419]

Time to bring up an old topic

Im looking for my first yixing, which will be for da hong pao(DHP), Xiao Hong Pao so its for full and medium bodied wuyi's. This is the 3rd attempt I've made. The last 2 times I got so confused and frustrated I said forget it and gave up.

After what feels like days of reading through this forum and several teablogs I decided to buy a modern Zhu Ni because I really enjoy the aroma of DHP and thought Zhu Ni would absorb less than a larger particled clay. I can't afford an old Zhu Ni and I dought I will find a 100ml Zhu Ni from the 60's anytime soon.

Then I talked with a very knowledgable person about this who has a lot of experience tasteing teas in different pots and they advised me that the best pot I could use for DHP would be a Pin Zi Ni or a Qing Shui Ni teapot. I was told that I could use Zhu Ni but that it probably wouldn't give me the best result. This has me all messed up now and I feel like Im back to square one. Maybe the only way to tell is to buy both pots and see for myself but my wallet might not agree.

Im just looking for some more opinions and what your experiences are brewing Da Hong Pao in yixing and your preference. In short what do you brew DHP in?

[Maitre_Tea]

I think instead of deciding dedication criteria for specific teas, I think it's more important to consider roasting/oxidation levels. This is because within these teas processing techniques/times can differ vastly. For instance, you can find a light roasted DHP or a heavy roasted DHP, and even though they can have that "classic" DHP flavor, they could be two very different beasts. IMO, I think it's "good enough" to have dedicated pots to be a little broader, i.e. heavy roasted wuyi, light roasted balled up oolong, etc. Granted, you might end up with a lot of pots, but I don't think you should think that you need 10 pots just to brew all your teas perfectly. I would rather have 3 good pots for all my teas instead of 10 so-so pots.

Moving onto dedication criteria, I think it really depends on what you want from the interaction of the tea and clay. Some people like the heightened aroma and sharpness that Zhu Ni can be, while others would find that same sharpness to be unpleasant, and would choose a softer clay, like Pin Zi Ni, to round out the edges a bit.

Don't worry about over-thinking your first pot, because it probably won't be your last pot, and it probably won't even be the "best" one. Out of all the initial pots I got, I still only use #5 from that era.

Also, I think there's a bit of "hype" built around Zhu Ni, and though many will insist it's the best clay, the definition of "best" is a subjective term. For my wuyi teas, I use a sand-blended Zhu Ni, which works nicely IMO. The Zhu Ni helps protect the aroma, while the sand blended nature rounds out the edges a bit. Everybody wins, in my book.

Just my two cents

[Tead Off]

Time to bring up an old topic

Im looking for my first yixing, which will be for da hong pao(DHP), Xiao Hong Pao so its for full and medium bodied wuyi's. This is the 3rd attempt I've made. The last 2 times I got so confused and frustrated I said forget it and gave up.

After what feels like days of reading through this forum and several teablogs I decided to buy a modern Zhu Ni because I really enjoy the aroma of DHP and thought Zhu Ni would absorb less than a larger particled clay. I can't afford an old Zhu Ni and I dought I will find a 100ml Zhu Ni from the 60's anytime soon.

Then I talked with a very knowledgable person about this who has a lot of experience tasteing teas in different pots and they advised me that the best pot I could use for DHP would be a Pin Zi Ni or a Qing Shui Ni teapot. I was told that I could use Zhu Ni but that it probably wouldn't give me the best result. This has me all messed up now and I feel like Im back to square one. Maybe the only way to tell is to buy both pots and see for myself but my wallet might not agree.

Im just looking for some more opinions and what your experiences are brewing Da Hong Pao in yixing and your preference. In short what do you brew DHP in?

As MT said, you are thinking way too much about what is 'right'. The most important thing is to buy a pot with good clay and a shape that is suitable for DHP. Whether it is zhuni, qing shui ni, hongni, the clay quality is what is important. When you buy a pot, if you buy a good one, you will find a use for it. All regular tea drinkers use more than 1 pot, I use 2 or 3 for Wuyi teas depending upon size, mood, etc. Here is one that I used to use but it is cracked. Notice the shape. It is fatter, better for the long leaves of Wuyi teas.

[Maitre_Tea]

Oh yes, no matter the clay, I think it's important for wuyi pots to be a little thicker, and perhaps a little flatter...but as long as the leaves fit it should be okay

[tingjunkie]

As someone who is just learning about Yixing pots and starting to build a (currently very tiny) collection myself, I think there is something to be said for "paying your dues." There is no possible way to tell what the perfect pot will be just from reading articles and forum advice. You really have to try some decent quality pots out for yourself to see what they do for a particular tea. If you are lucky, you may have some friends who already own decent pots that you can test drive, or, you may live close to a shop that sells good pots. If not, you may just have to bite the bullet and invest in some "good clay" of your own.

If purchasing is the route you have to take, I think Tead Off and Maitre_Tea give some excellent advice when they say it's better to invest in a pot with good clay now, rather than trying a bunch of mediocre pots and hoping for a diamond in the rough. If you aim for a great Wuyi pot, and happen to "miss" then at least you have still invested in a pot you will be using for another tea a decade or two down the road. If you buy a cheap pot, chances are you will move past it in the not too far future. Contact the top tier of reliable vendors (Tea Gallery, Hou De, Nada, Jing), and get their advice. They should be able to guess at what their stock of pots are capable of much better than beginners like us would. They have the experience and knowledge we lack.

Lastly, consider what you want the pot to do for the DHP tea. Are you willing to trade some aroma for flavor or vice versa? Do you want the bold roasting flavors and mineral qualities to be present in the brew, or do you want to tame or "round" these qualities? Your ideal DHP pot may not be the same as my ideal DHP pot in the end.

Good luck! I'm right there on the newb journey with you! Just remember to have fun with all of it, and take an occasional tea break while doing research.

[brad4419]

Thanks everyone for your help. After reading through your advice I decided to buy 2 teapots and get some experience. I went with at least 1 really nice quality Zhu Ni pot made in the 80's or earlier. Its the right shape and size Im looking for. The other teapot is this one http://cgi.ebay.com/Yixing-Zisha-Tea-Po ... 35a2f29ada from Dragon Tea House. I asked Gordon about the clay and he said it's made of yellow Di Cao Qong. Heres a link to a discussion that mentions Di Cao Qing which I hope is the same thing http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... =+cao+qing. It looks like the Di Cao Qong from ebay picture could have some goldish looking flakes in the clay so Im hopeing its pretty good clay, I guess we will see when it gets here

So what Im getting from your posts is that Its a good Idea to have at least 3 different brewing devices for Wuyi teas. One for light, medium and heavy roasts. Im planning on using a gaiwan for lights, either the Di Cao Qing or Zhu Ni for the medium and heavy roasts. Is there any way to tell the level of roast/oxidation just by looking at the leaf or is it best to ask the seller what the levels are? I ask this because I don't see any stores specifying the roast level in there descriptions.

Do slight flavor differences affect what teas should be brewed in the same pot? For example Rou Gui has a cinnamon flavor so If it was brewed consistently in a yixing, would that affect other teas brewed in the same pot?

[tingjunkie]

Congrats on the purchases. Please report back and let us know how the DTH pot performs.

[oldmanteapot]

So what Im getting from your posts is that Its a good Idea to have at least 3 different brewing devices for Wuyi teas. One for light, medium and heavy roasts. Im planning on using a gaiwan for lights, either the Di Cao Qing or Zhu Ni for the medium and heavy roasts. Is there any way to tell the level of roast/oxidation just by looking at the leaf or is it best to ask the seller what the levels are? I ask this because I don't see any stores specifying the roast level in there descriptions.

As a matter of fact, there's no one prescribed clay or shape of teapot for a specific tea. IMO, it boils down to the affinity between the teapot and tea. I would personally use a gaiwan to set a benchmark in determining if the teapot is suitable for the said tea. A gaiwan will not absorb any of the aroma or taste of the tea, basically, you get what you brew. Then you compare it to a selected teapot of any clay of your choice. If the result of the brew is better than the gaiwan, then it's a good match to start off with. Otherwise, if it is less desiring than the brew from the gaiwan, either you switch tea or teapot

For example, I've got a new zhuni pot that brews DHP with amazing results. The teapot is high fired, with a very high ringing pitch to the teapot. But when you brew RouGui in the same teapot, it's a huge disappointment! I have friends who have the same RuoGui tea as I do and his Zhuni teapot brews an excellent round of RouGui! Trying to eliminate the possibility of brewing errors in the hands of the master brewer, we switched teapots and brewed again... the results are the same! His Zhuni brews RouGui better than mine!

Do slight flavor differences affect what teas should be brewed in the same pot? For example Rou Gui has a cinnamon flavor so If it was brewed consistently in a yixing, would that affect other teas brewed in the same pot?

It depends on how particular you are about the tea you're brewing. I've got friends who only use Gaiwan because they want their tea the way it is. Some love their tea which 'rounded' by the effects of the Yixing on their tea. I personally am very particular with my yancha. So, each yancha has their own dedicated teapot. Brewing multiple types of yancha in the same teapot will not harm the tea much, but it might introduce some small level of cross-contamination in the aroma and taste of the tea.

Cheers!!