Friday TeaDay 8/22/08 Fair Trade Certified Teas

[Victoria]

Sal, matcha? I think that's the first matcha photo I've seen from you. Am I a bad influence? Love that table runner, and it's a good thing you live cross-country, or I might break in and steal that sweet little chawan.

http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... w=previous

i know i've seen salsero and matcha before. i wish i could frame it and put it on my art wall.

Ahh yes, I remember that one, nice! That was slightly before GeekGirl joined us!

In my cup at work, Iron Goddess King - now back to work!

[Chip]

I can see the FTC industry has some PR work to do.

I did enjoy Space's posts. He was the inspiration for today's topic, but I sensed it would be a tough topic generally speaking since the FTC industry is hard to grasp at times. What I gleened from his comments first and foremost, was to do nothing, solves nothing.

I am a born skeptic. It is hard for me to trust an industry in general, kind of like the tobacco industry telling us cigarrettes are safe. Now they control a major segment of the food industry. If they start buying tea plantations, I am going to freak out.

But I truly want to believe the merits and potential of the FTC concept. Have they arrived and perfected it yet, no. But I do believe it is a work in progress.

Started the day with Spring Sprout FTC from Rishi. Now a Japanese tea with no realistic FTC applications, Fukamushi Supreme fro O-Cha.

[kongni]

I am a big proponent of organic and fair trade teas so it's great to see a lively discussion on the subject going on!

Here is a link to other information on the fair trade movement and why you should buy ethically traded tea:

http://www.ethicalteapartnership.org/index.asp

And here is a pretty long list of tea and coffee sellers that offer fair trade teas:

http://www.transfairusa.org/content/cer ... s2.php#tea

I want to see Adagio Teas on that list SOON!!!!

[joelbct]

Started the day with Spring Sprout FTC from Rishi. Now a Japanese tea with no realistic FTC applications, Fukamushi Supreme fro O-Cha.

I suspect that is part of the reason that Japanese tea costs a bit more than Chines or Indian tea. The labour costs (wages) in Japan are higher.

Of course, so is the cost of living in Japan, so just because Japanese Tea Laborers are making at least $50 a day and Chinese or Indian laborers might make $5 or $10 a day, I guess it doesn't mean much if the cost of living in Japan is 5 or 10 times higher than it is in China or India.

Economics is a curious phenomenon.... and as mentioned above, well-intentioned efforts to help people can sometimes wind up making things worse.

[Cinnamon Kitty]

I am actually pretty familiar with Fair Trade. I had a friend who did a presentation on Fair Trade in one of our classes, which got me interested in the topic. My college goes as far as to have Fair Trade Coffees on campus which would be great if I drank coffee. I have tried one Fair Trade Certified tea so far and would definitely order it again partly because of the Fair Trade and that it was pretty tasty. That tea was the Lesla Estate Kenyan Black Tea from the New Mexico Tea Company.

I try to buy organic and Fair Trade when I am able to within reason. Sometimes, things that are not organic and not Fair Trade taste better and are cheaper, so many times it is a debate of how much more am I willing to spend to get the Organic or Fair Trade stuff and how much am I willing to sacrifice on taste to have a better peace of mind if I bought something Organic or Fair Trade Certified.

Fair Trade may not be the best possibly way to get better living and wages for the less fortunate farmers in poorer countries, but it is definitely a step in the right direction. I figure that every little bit helps especially since if you add all the little bits together they can eventually make a larger impact.

Today, I have gotten as far as enjoying some Organic Monk's Blend mixed with Orange Blossom Oolong.

[Chip]

I suspect that is part of the reason that Japanese tea costs a bit more than Chines or Indian tea. The labour costs (wages) in Japan are higher.

Of course, so is the cost of living in Japan, so just because Japanese Tea Laborers are making at least $50 a day and Chinese or Indian laborers might make $5 or $10 a day, I guess it doesn't mean much if the cost of living in Japan is 5 or 10 times higher than it is in China or India.

Economics is a curious phenomenon.... and as mentioned above, well-intentioned efforts to help people can sometimes wind up making things worse.

I sometimes think Japanese teas are cheaper than Chinese counterparts. For instance the topic under green tea currently about cost differentials for Chinese greens. The vast majority of Japanese greens I consider buying are less than 30 USD per 100 grams and are for the most part 10-25 USD (obvious exceptions are matcha and gyokuro). Chinese teas I consider often break through this barrier and are higher on average. It is quite a paradox in view of labour costs. Obviously other factors are at play.

"Economics is a curious phenomenum." I was talking to my mainland Chinese friend a while back. She told me that many products made in China that we consider cheap are priced beyond the means of most Chinese buyers. The cost of living per se is high in terms of niceties that we buy cheaply here due to our higher cost of living scales in the west.

3rd steep Teamasters Wenshan Baozhong is currently in my cup. I will likely move on and come back to this tonight. A very good TeaDay today.

[Geekgirl]

...I think the implementation is still in its infancy and still rather meaningless in most cases.

Obviously as a supporter of FT, I dissagree with this, but it is a response I have seen often.

And my answer always is, "so what if it is?"

Fair Trade makes a difference...

It's very possible that I have fallen victim to anti-FT propaganda. Or there may be some validity to my objections, I don't know. Honestly, I'm not that knowledgeable about the subject.

However, I tend to agree with your assertion that, over time, it is a meaningful change. In the same way that recycling is still in its infancy regarding the impact it actually has on the enviroment, hybrid cars still having more detrimental impact than hummers, etc, it is a mindset that we are developing: reduce, reuse, recycle... child labor laws, fair trade, organic, sustainable agriculture.

Where possible, I will select "organic" "fair trade" "sustainable," because I believe that changing attitudes is by far the most difficult step. If people have a expectation of change and improvement, that change generally will follow, even if it is slower than we would like to see.

I remember the huge to-do created by health-conscious moms over rBST in dairy products, and how, long before evidence became public that all of our hormone laden beef and chicken products are indeed causing seven year old girls and boys to develop breasts, marketing for large dairy companies realized it would be in their best interests financially to develop their rBST-free markets.

In the same vein, car manufacturers are (finally) beginning to produce options for the low-mileage consumer, with more and more scooters, hybrids and high mpg/low weight cars coming to market.

As demand for FTC increases, yes, we will see more counterfeiting of certification, but I agree we will also see conditions improving in diverse areas. One can hope, at least, that this is the eventuality of consumer demand.

Perhaps an even better result will happen on the consumer end, making us more conscious of making good choices, instead of willy-nilly consumerism. (I include myself in that assessment.)

[Pentox]

For me FT like Organic just doesn't sway me one way or another. I don't want to affect the quality or price of my product, but if all else equal, and I do mean ALL, sure i'll go for an organic or Ft product. In my experiences thus far though organic products just haven't been the same level of quality. Most of which I've seen marketed because they are organic or because they are FT, and not because it's a great product, but acting as though organic/ft is it's own reason for making the product better.

[britt]

After reading the info from the supplied link, FTC sounds a bit too "communitarian" or "collectivist" for my tastes. Just another way to eventually put the tea industry under the control of external forces. The "democracy" referred to means the eventual erosion of the individual rights and freedom of choice now excercised by the independent tea farms.

I am not particularly concerned with the minimum wages or minimum age of laborers in some far-away land that I know nothing about. In some cases, prohibiting child labor would result in more poverty as this labor supports the child's family. Is it more humane to prevent the child from working, therefore allowing the whole family to starve?

I guess it's obvious that I don't support FTC.

[augie]

Buying from Japan, I think we can be reasonably sure that the workers are well treated. It's really just China and India to worry about, and I can't think of much reason to trust a 'fair trade' or 'organic' label from China.

I agree with this post, pentox and a couple others. If everything is equal, price included, and I have a choice between FT & organic or not. I will choose the Fair Trade and Organic. I'm not paying double-extra because I am not 100% convinced it's trustworthy. I also don't have time to research and make sure the company is fair trade as it says it is.

Drinking iced gunpowder this afternoon.

[Wosret]

One huge problem with child labour, britt, is that these children could be going to school rather than working, which is going to dramatically improve their prospects later on. If they have to do the same work as their parents, how are they ever supposed to improve their lives? Lack of schooling and lack of opportunities is real shame. We take so much for granted in "the west," including being able to choose whatever we want when we answer the question: "what do you want to be when you grow up?"

I don't want to just see an improvement in the economy and lives in my own country; I firmly believe that improving the lives of everyone around the world will lead to a better world in general. Why should we be the lucky ones benefiting from all this advanced technology and medicine? It smacks of Imperialism, at worst, and selfishness at best.

Clearly, I feel strongly about it, so please forgive me if I'm a little overzealous.

[Geekgirl]

HALP!!! My zoji has been taken hostage!!!

[Space Samurai]

To the skeptics...some of us already left various links to information about Fair Trade and its impact, and I could provide several more. What I would like to see from you is the same. It seems clear that there are some negative attitudes certifications in general, but is there any proof of corruption in Transfair USA or FLO? Is there any evidence that suggests that Fair Trade dollars aren't making an impact. I'd be curious to see it, and I think it would be great to add something tangible to the other side of this discussion.

What I learned in the five minutes I was paying attention in Sociology is that its always about the data. So when it comes to contraversial topics, I like to see facts, statistics and not just opinions.

Of course its Tea Day, so opinions are okay, too.

As far as "democracy," on tea farms its the workers themselves that decide how to spend the Fair Trade premium they get (FTC Coffee tends to involve much smaller co-ops who have more direct control over the money). This way each group of workers get to decide how best to meet their needs. Do they want more schools, maternity clinics, access to computers, better roads. It's empowering.

And I agree with Wosret, that regardless of the economic situation of the present, if you do nothing to brake the cycle, these kids will never have a chance to better themselves, and their kids, and so on.

I am not particularly concerned with the minimum wages or minimum age of laborers in some far-away land that I know nothing about.

That's the problem, we live at the expense of others.

[Selaphiel]

Kind of coincidental. I just came home from a meeting in an organization I'm a member of. And they are doing a collaboration project (with a women rights organization) about female te-pickers in Sri Lanka. They use Tamil women to pick their tea, they have to pick at least 22kg of leaves every day otherwise their salary, which is 2$ per 8 hour work day (hard physical labor for 8 hours that is), will be deducted. The factories earn 11 times the salary they pay per unit.
In addition to this, they have to live at the tea plantages, where violence and rape is a problem.
I'm not saying that I know how to fix it, but what I'm sure of is that something should be done. I do feel partly responsible if I buy from people who abuses their workers like that.

[Chip]

In addition to this, they have to live at the tea plantages, where violence and rape is a problem.
I'm not saying that I know how to fix it, but what I'm sure of is that something should be done. I do feel partly responsible if I buy from people who abuses their workers like that.

How would you know though? Information to end-consumer is very limited and often unreliable. Information that is truly reliable and specific and factual is a starting point of reform.

A gyokuro from Yame just blew me away. 2.67 grams per ounce water will do that, espeicially if it is called "the ultimate" and it makes good on its name. So, went with 4 grams of this devine precious dew leaf in 5 teeny 1.5 ounce steeps.

This was possibly the best gyokuro experience I have ever had. It was that good. My TeaDay just went from "very good" a few hours ago to phenom!