Real or Fake Dayi? Pros and Cons of collecting Dayi?

[apache]

After my last reply on this topic (top of page 2), I just wanted to leave it like that until Dass's last post. I do feel partly responsible of taking this topic from talking about Fake or Real Dayi to the point where we have a heated argument.

After all, it is tea and it means to bring relaxation and enjoyment. We all have our own opinions, sometime can come across very strongly in writing, but we all entitle to our own opinions. I'm sure, if we talked face to face, we might have a more candid discussion which I believe is what this forum is all about.

Dass and auhckw, please don't feel excluded.

I do apologise if I have wrote anything which cases offence.

[betta]

Let's keep what personal preference be as a personal thing ok. I am very happy with what I have bought and collected. At the end of day, it is after all the most important factor in drinking tea.

Above all, I think that is the most important.
Honestly I am surprised that teashop in Malaysia also buy back aged stuffs from any personal at that margin.

Do you have certain method to age your tea there?

[Dass]

Let's keep what personal preference be as a personal thing ok. I am very happy with what I have bought and collected. At the end of day, it is after all the most important factor in drinking tea.

Above all, I think that is the most important.
Honestly I am surprised that teashop in Malaysia also buy back aged stuffs from any personal at that margin.

Do you have certain method to age your tea there?

It is not certain method but the climate in Malaysia is good to age tea.
A tea kept in Malaysia for 1 year is same as kept in China for 3 years.
Thats why China tea drinkers now want aged tea kept in Malaysia.
The most sought after tea kept from Malaysia now in China is - 88 Green cake and 97 Clear Blue Water tea ( dont know if the words are correct in English). If I have theses cakes with me now, I can walk to any tea shop here and they will pay me cash USD 320 for the 97 and USD 1050 for the 88.

The other example is the 2010 70th anniversary Dayi Tea. When I bought a box when it was released,the price was USD 360 a box and that was November last year. But currently if I give back the box to the tea shop I can get USD 770.

[TIM]

Let's keep what personal preference be as a personal thing ok. I am very happy with what I have bought and collected. At the end of day, it is after all the most important factor in drinking tea.

Above all, I think that is the most important.
Honestly I am surprised that teashop in Malaysia also buy back aged stuffs from any personal at that margin.

Do you have certain method to age your tea there?

It is not certain method but the climate in Malaysia is good to age tea.
A tea kept in Malaysia for 1 year is same as kept in China for 3 years.
Thats why China tea drinkers now want aged tea kept in Malaysia.
The most sought after tea kept from Malaysia now in China is - 88 Green cake and 97 Clear Blue Water tea ( dont know if the words are correct in English). If I have theses cakes with me now, I can walk to any tea shop here and they will pay me cash USD 320 for the 97 and USD 1050 for the 88.

The other example is the 2010 70th anniversary Dayi Tea. When I bought a box when it was released,the price was USD 360 a box and that was November last year. But currently if I give back the box to the tea shop I can get USD 770.

Hi Dass - Love to buy a sample from you on a 88 green cake (7542), a 10 grams perhaps? I would love to see how Malay storage can speed up that 3 years claim you did suggeste... that was your previous life in teachat before you abandon us a couple years ago?

Since i do have a few of this cakes from the original mr. chan's storage to Tawianese and Canada storages, it will be interesting to do a side by side tasting and share with chatters here.

Please do let me know if this is possible from you. Big thanks in advance ~ Toki

[shah82]

Yes, but it's *always* like that in a bubble. Success feeds on success until it doesn't, and the music always stops too fast for anyone still on to get off. The insidious nature of bubbles is that you're always a participant in the action, so much so, such that you lose track of what really matters. It's fine to wheel and deal, but never bet more than you can lose, either in cash or holding worthless merchandise with the injurious hope that you can get the old price back, someday.

If you've gotta use a black-light to check your bings, then that's a very strong suggestion that you be cautious, because there's a critical amount of fools and crooks out there. When the shoeshine boy is giving you stock-tips...

Let this be clear, Dayi does make tea worth buying. The vast majority of my shu is Dayi, and I'm happy with the little Dayi sheng (2005 Mengsong Peacock and 2007 Secret Fragrance) I have. My impression is that MarshalN's ire is about getting items like new 7742s, Spring of Menghais, 70th Anniversaries, etc...There are tons of pretty dang good Dayi, like the 2003 shengtai we were all so confused about earlier. I took Dass' advice about Secret Fragrance, and that turned out to be good. These are teas that are *good*, and teas that are almost guaranteed to find someone who wants to drink them. Why get tongs and tongs of tea that is unlikely to inspire anyone to drink them once the glitter is gone, and the crowd is after The Next Big Thing? Buy tea that you like very much first of all, even if you're out to wheel and deal. If your taste isn't awful, then you'll eventually have *some* sort of reward, if not in great tea, cash, then perhaps a funny story in a teashop? A memory of a friend?

[MarshalN]

Yes, but it's *always* like that in a bubble. Success feeds on success until it doesn't, and the music always stops too fast for anyone still on to get off. The insidious nature of bubbles is that you're always a participant in the action, so much so, such that you lose track of what really matters. It's fine to wheel and deal, but never bet more than you can lose, either in cash or holding worthless merchandise with the injurious hope that you can get the old price back, someday.

Let this be clear, Dayi does make tea worth buying. The vast majority of my shu is Dayi, and I'm happy with the little Dayi sheng (2005 Mengsong Peacock and 2007 Secret Fragrance) I have. My impression is that MarshalN's ire is about getting items like new 7742s, Spring of Menghais, 70th Anniversaries, etc...There are tons of pretty dang good Dayi, like the 2003 shengtai we were all so confused about earlier. I took Dass' advice about Secret Fragrance, and that turned out to be good. These are teas that are *good*, and teas that are almost guaranteed to find someone who wants to drink them. Why get tongs and tongs of tea that is unlikely to inspire anyone to drink them once the glitter is gone, and the crowd is after The Next Big Thing? Buy tea that you like very much first of all, even if you're out to wheel and deal. If your taste isn't awful, then you'll eventually have *some* sort of reward, if not in great tea, cash, then perhaps a funny story in a teashop? A memory of a friend?

This pretty much sums up my view on the matter -- there are some gems in the Dayi world, but there are also lots of duds. I'm 100% sure that not all Dayi tea will turn out well -- some will, but many won't. Buying using the shotgun method is not a very good idea in terms of money spent and also space consumed. Perhaps our Malay friends here have lots and lots of room in their house, in which case, great. However, there have been many cases in the past 5-10 years of Dayi cakes that were very hyped and expensive when they first came out (0622 - 601, for example) that have subsequently turned out to be real duds. Those holding cakes from then would be left holding something pretty terrible and are at prices that are basically the same as when they came out. That's why I'm so circumspect when it comes to these hyped, big factory cakes that are "special" in some ways. Those are usually just stories concocted to sell the tea.

[chrl42]

Menghai factory was privatized in 04, so there were some changes, many master blenders retired or went to other factories

Old or new, it's clear they mostly use Tai Di Cha, however it's a blending they gathered their name..but some collectors argue that blending too, has changed..

Seeing Menghai factory is like seeng Factory 1 (5~70's and 8~90's), as an organization expands, quality falling is inevitable, and more models are launched, below's something about Menghai I captured on web,

In 04, their sales profits were around 550,000 (usd) then in 07 estimated profit is to be 80 millons which is unbelievable expansion. Since 08, Menghai factory invests 5 millons for advertisement every year, especially for CCTV. By 08, Menghai factory owned 46 first-rated distributors nationalwide, one distributor's security deposit is 5 miilons,

I'm not sure how they are changed in 11', but indeed I see their franchises every sidewalks in Beijing, like Starbucks in manhattan..

[fdrx]

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. (slightly paraphrased I think)

Actually Voltaire never wrote that even if he said something rather close, Evelyn Hall wrote it, but it doesn't really matter...

[gingkoseto]

I agree Meng Hai's quality has fallen. Meantime, I think the falling of Meng Hai's quality is a lot less severe than the falling of the entire puerh industry's quality. One can say Meng Hai is good, and one can say it's bad, but the question is what tea the index to compare, what parameters (price, quality, timeline) are used, and more importantly, who is making the judgment.

I agree with what Chip said, it's human nature that everybody tends to hold a position. That's why the more positions held by people, the more confusing the thing looks, the closer we are to truth (well, sometimes). So Daas I really hope to see you hanging around to express your position. Sometimes it's more fun hanging out with unlikely-minded

[Tobias]

Sometimes it's more fun hanging out with unlikely-minded

I disagree.

[auhckw]

Some of you guys have replied in a mature and well mannered way, so thanks for listening and commenting politely to what I am sharing from my point of view located in Malaysia. I don't speak for everyone here, which is why I emphasize it is personal preference.

However, there have been many cases in the past 5-10 years of Dayi cakes that were very hyped and expensive when they first came out (0622 - 601, for example) that have subsequently turned out to be real duds. Those holding cakes from then would be left holding something pretty terrible and are at prices that are basically the same as when they came out. That's why I'm so circumspect when it comes to these hyped, big factory cakes that are "special" in some ways. Those are usually just stories concocted to sell the tea.

0622-601 when it is new in y2006, in malaysia it cost MYR30+ then... Today it cost MYR120+

I would not buy it today at MYR120+ cause I don't find it worth the taste, but if I were to buy it then at MYR30+ I would be glad I had. The taste may not be that great but at the cost of MYR30+ I would think it ain't that bad. As for space, yes I do complain I am running out

[MarshalN]

Hmm, clearly there's a disconnect between Malaysia prices and China prices both new and old. How much is a current year 7542 there?

[Drax]

Hmm, clearly there's a disconnect between Malaysia prices and China prices both new and old. How much is a current year 7542 there?

Auhckw has mentioned previously that prices are even higher in Taiwan (it was Taiwan, right?) -- or he's mentioned that tea sellers were considering shipping much of their inventory elsewhere where the market was higher...

In light of that info, it might be interesting to pick a few beengs (more than one) and have people in those areas do a local pricing if possible....?

[auhckw]

Hmm, clearly there's a disconnect between Malaysia prices and China prices both new and old. How much is a current year 7542 there?

y2011 7542 when new/pre-order MYR40++
y2011 7542 today MYR65 (just few months)

y2009 7542 when new/pre-order MYR18
y2009 7542 today MYR70

[auhckw]

Hmm, clearly there's a disconnect between Malaysia prices and China prices both new and old. How much is a current year 7542 there?

Auhckw has mentioned previously that prices are even higher in Taiwan (it was Taiwan, right?) -- or he's mentioned that tea sellers were considering shipping much of their inventory elsewhere where the market was higher...

In light of that info, it might be interesting to pick a few beengs (more than one) and have people in those areas do a local pricing if possible....?

2 diff sellers told me that Taiwan has better demand and more buying power. The profit margins can be higher there. They said the market for Taiwan is picking up better than Malaysia which is nowadays slowing down. How true (for the Taiwan part)... I don't know.... but for Malaysia slowing down (I think it is quite noticeable)