Will you temporarily stop purchasing Japanese Greens?

[JBaymore]

It's the perceived danger that arise from drinking radioactive tea.

Precisely. The key work there is "percieved". Perception is not equal with reality.

Misinformation can cause people to "percieve" that the risks are far greater than they are.... thereby possibly causing unwarranted economic damage to some poor innocent people who are getting caught in the crossfire of misinformation, anacdotal "evidence", people outright misrepresrnting facts on the net, and other such junk that is floating around on this subject.

Science is the key to any really accurate information here. And not "lay science". To really know what is going on, we need infomation from people who have prepared to study this catastrophe by studying this nuclear physis and nuclear medicine subject academically and hold advanced degrees, and with them using the best available labratory grade equipment.

If "anyone" can use such equipment and draw accurate results and accurate conclusions form any data obtained.... then why the heck do people study this field as an academic subject? Hey folks..... save youreself the tuition .

Everything else is just so much "smoke". So to keep agressively perpertuating the "smoke" as some sort of "facts" is a dis-service.

My coworker has told me this morning that her friend who usually buy tea from japan on the net has bought a geiger counter and he has found radioactivity on 2 teas.

This is an example of what I mean by "smoke". In some ways it reminds me of the commercials on American TV that end with "No, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night". There is nothing credible nor informative in this posting. Is is just an unsubstantiated negative comment about the safety of Japanese teas. With NO real NUMBERS ....let alone even knowing if the numbers supplied are ACCURATE.

It is the classic example we use in acadeaemia of the, "A friend of a friend of a friend told me so it must be true" mistake in supporting a statement. It is total heresay.

Did you know that all bananas are radioactive? You can research the accuracy of that one quite easily.

best,

.............john

[Chip]

All agricultural products grown in any part of the world are radioactive...and this has nothing to do with any kind of human activity.

This is why when you say tea is radioactive you really need to quantify how much and what type and which isotopes are the source?

Exactomundo on all points.

I am concerned that disclosing any info on TeaChat from a second or third hand amateur source without the properly certified lab work would be grossly unfair to whoever the seller is as John mentioned 2X.

However lkj or his friend could certainly report their concerns to the seller, or submit their tea to a certified lab for thorough testing (since money is no object for this guy). If the same type and isotopes are present that are present in truly contaminated tea/food in Japan in levels that justify concern, then maybe I would want to know about it.

Until then, I am not likely to allow a lynching without proper evidence to support it.

But perhaps this is a Shizuoka offering and is not really anything very new ...

[oak]

I do not know up to what point there are controlled in the native land the sales of agrarian products, also is the well-read one in the published blog that radioactive fertilizer have mixed with not radioactive fertilizer, which in Mie's zone radioactive food has served itself in a college, as well as in other zones.

http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/08/radi ... t-ate.html

http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/08/radi ... chool.html

It seems as if the control in the zone was difficult to carry out. And given the situation we might consider to buy or not to buy teas that come from the zone or that seem to us that they come from the zone, until the situation us deserves confidence, but not for mere speculations across Internet, but due documented. Also we have the freedom of being able to throw the bought products recovering in health, provided that one has sold us without any guarantee in rule.

I think that we feel enormously the happened but it does not mean that we close the eyes and put our health in danger.

[a.serrao]

Just to stay on topic, citing REAL scientific numbers, here they are:

here http://www.mhlw.go.jp/english/topics/20 ... aug19.html
scroll down from #184 to #188.
Radioactive tea: second flush unrefined, Chiba prefecture.

Up to this point I'd not trust japanese green tea anymore, until real scientific measurements will read: ND for either cesium and iodine.

Fortunately there are many alternatives: greens from china, taiwan, vietnam, korea and even india.

[Chip]

Good to know, though I have never purchased tea from Chiba.

I will continue to purchase from other regions such as Uji and Kyushu.

I would certainly trust these much more so than most Indian and Vietnamese ...

[Drax]

This result should not be a surprise, given Chiba's geographic location -- it's between Fukushima and Shizuoka (or at least, along the coast).

If Shizuoka has been bad, then I would expect Chiba as well, and probably Ibaraki and Kanagawa.

[a.serrao]

I would certainly trust these much more so than most Indian and Vietnamese ...

As long as the tea is being tested before shipment to retail stores.

For example, here in Europe the world's largest Darjeeling importer (http://www.teekampagne.de) has a very effective tracking method. On every package of tea there's a bar code. You insert the bar code numbers on a page of the website and a series of certificates pop up including radiation and pesticide residue tests, and all administrative documents that accompany the tea from the farm to your house (shipment's documents, customs' documents etc...).

If you think this method could have a big impact on tea price to the final customer, better reconsider it. Have a look at their price list.

I think this is a perfect way of gaining respect from the customers. Why this method isn't being implemented also in Japan?

[Chip]

I would certainly trust these much more so than most Indian and Vietnamese ...

As long as the tea is being tested before shipment to retail stores.

For example, here in Europe the world's largest Darjeeling importer (http://www.teekampagne.de) has a very effective tracking method. On every package of tea there's a bar code. You insert the bar code numbers on a page of the website and a series of certificates pop up including radiation and pesticide residue tests, and all administrative documents that accompany the tea from the farm to your house (shipment's documents, customs' documents etc...).

If you think this method could have a big impact on tea price to the final customer, better reconsider it. Have a look at their price list.

I think this is a perfect way of gaining respect from the customers. Why this method isn't being implemented also in Japan?

Indian teas have so many problems of their own. Vietnames can be downright scary.

Bottom line, know your vendor! That is great that you know and trust this vendor. I am much more phobic of the vast majority of Indian teas than I am of Uji and Kyushu teas, though I know there are better vendors. But 12 years of watching Indian teas has left me ... apprehensive.

Even documents in the private sector can be faked. Just as you are paranoid of Japanese teas, I am of private sector documentation. And if the tea is so affordable, why is that?

Side note, we have a well for our water, used to have a well known local company test the water for bacteria, metals, minerals, etc. The guy would come out and take a sample and a week or so later, we would get a certification/report of what was in our water. Turns out, the guy was not testing the water and churning out false documents. Hard to believe someone could have such disregard for his fellow man, but it happens everyday in the private sector. The love of money is a powerful motivator.

[a.serrao]

The love of money is a powerful motivator.

Also in Japan, as the Fukushima accident showed.
Put in that perspective no tea is 100% safe, whether japanese, chinese etc...
At least that german site tries to show extensive documentations.
Japanese online vendors show only a scan of the main test page, written in japanese, seldom in english. And not all online vendors do that.
Should I trust these certificates?
Should I trust an online vendor if he/she says that this particular tea comes from Kagoshima?
Or that tea from Uji?

Being that skeptical is a paradox.

P.S.: if you care to have a look at the site, it's written why the tea is that affordable. And I think they're not faking it.

[JBaymore]

I find it hard to understand how you can put together this statement:

At least that german site tries to show extensive documentations.

with the following two statements:

Should I trust these certificates? Should I trust an online vendor if he/she says that this particular tea comes from Kagoshima?
Or that tea from Uji?.

and

And I think they're not faking it.

Why should you trust the German site, but not the Japanese ones? Seems like significant bias to me.

..................john

[a.serrao]

Why should you trust the German site, but not the Japanese ones? Seems like significant bias to me.

..................john

What I was meaning was the opposite. That is, either japanese and german tests are equally valid.
To prove it I've added the phrase: "Being that skeptical is a paradox".

Now, paradox isn't the right term. What I was trying to say was that if you are skeptical on anything you don't live anymore. You become obsessed with anything just because you can't have 100% valid proofs.

But I've begun to learn that japanese government is way much more prone to cover ups than the german one. So maybe also japanese people. Hence my doubts. There are examples in that sense (in the automobile industry - Mitsubishi for example).

Since "the love of money is a powerful motivator", which is true 100% anywhere in the world, either I must be skeptical with german and japanese tests or I must trust both.

What I was complaining was the lack of transparency, that is some japanese online vendors limit themselves to put some scanned pdf tests on their sites, some even don't put anything, and they are the majority, while the german vendor has a much more comprehensive way of tracking the tea. You can, for example, call the german laboratory which made the tests and ask for a copy of the certificate, signed.
Every tea batch has his bar code.
Japanese online vendors most of the times don't specify what kind of tea was submitted to radiation tests. There's only a generic hint (green tea).
Plus, Kagoshima tea was never submitted to radiation tests, as far as I know.

Why darjeeling tea is submitted to many tests and Kagoshima tea not?

[a.serrao]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNzDg4O9 ... r_embedded

AND

http://youtu.be/fimRJocH_90

[Catfur]

Just to stay on topic, citing REAL scientific numbers, here they are:

here http://www.mhlw.go.jp/english/topics/20 ... aug19.html
scroll down from #184 to #188.
Radioactive tea: second flush unrefined, Chiba prefecture.

Up to this point I'd not trust japanese green tea anymore, until real scientific measurements will read: ND for either cesium and iodine.

Fortunately there are many alternatives: greens from china, taiwan, vietnam, korea and even india.

Using the following conservative (that is, erring on the side of greater exposure) assumptions (some just to make the calculation easier, because I don't feel like doing the half life differential equations):

All of the radioactive cesium in the tea is absorbed by your body (the real answer is <100% will be absorbed)

Left hand riemann sums, computed once every biological half life, to determine the amount of cesium in you

Every single gamma ray emitted by the decaying radiocesium is absorbed by your body (only a fraction of the emitted gamma rays will be absorbed, while all emitted betas will be absorbed)

You are drinking only the most contaminated tea found

Using the above extra conservative assumptions, you would have to drink a literal (not figurative) ton (that's 1000 Kilos) of tea, to get a dose equivalent to the smallest dose known to cause cancer (and that dose is a single dose, not spread out over time, which lessens the risk).

[Chip]

... fascinating ...

This is reassuring, though I will still lay off the Shizuoka for now. It would be too difficult to enjoy for me personally.

[Xell]

Why darjeeling tea is submitted to many tests and Kagoshima tea not?

Because Indian teas had a bad reputation and every one piece needs some kind of proof to drink it relatively without worries. Radiation spreading in Japan is restricted geographically, if teas tested in Uji showed zero, then there is no way it can suddenly show positive in Kagoshima. Laboratories are busy enough testing food/soil samples from affected regions, to not let dangerous products out.