Real or Fake Dayi? Pros and Cons of collecting Dayi?

[betta]

Hmm, clearly there's a disconnect between Malaysia prices and China prices both new and old. How much is a current year 7542 there?

y2011 7542 when new/pre-order MYR40++
y2011 7542 today MYR65 (just few months)

y2009 7542 when new/pre-order MYR18
y2009 7542 today MYR70

I wished I could get someone to sell puerh for me there. It seems that there puerh is more lucrative than investing in gold or funds.
Who are the main customers there? new or experienced drinkers?

[apache]

Probably most of you already known this site (probably official site) and I think it might be useful for price check of Dayi production in China. Just in case some would like to know:

Sheng Cakes

Shu Cakes

Sheng Bricks

Shu Bricks

Sheng Tuo

Shu Tuo

[auhckw]

Probably most of you already known this site (probably official site) and I think it might be useful for price check of Dayi production in China. Just in case some would like to know:

Sheng Cakes

Shu Cakes

Sheng Bricks

Shu Bricks

Sheng Tuo

Shu Tuo

The site you gave I don't think is official. I did a quick browse on the prices on the links and this is against what the prices I get:

名称：大益普洱茶金大益 (2011 Golden Dayi Raw)
价格：￥280（￥78/100克） / MYR130
Price here is MYR91 (new/pre-order) - this is coming soon, orders been made

名称：大益普洱茶越陈越香 (2010 Yue Chen Yue Xiang Raw)
价格：￥126（￥35/100克） / MYR58
Price here is MYR34 (new/pre-order) - cannot find it any more in Malaysia

名称：大益普洱茶金针白莲 (2010 Golden Needle White Lotus Ripe)
价格：￥220（￥61/100克） / MYR102
Price here is MYR50 (new/pre-order)

名称：大益普洱茶甲级沱茶 (2011 Jia Ji Tuo Raw)
价格：￥12（￥12/100克） / MYR5.5
Price here is MYR4.1 (new/pre-order) - this is coming soon, orders been made

[auhckw]

I wished I could get someone to sell puerh for me there. It seems that there puerh is more lucrative than investing in gold or funds.
Who are the main customers there? new or experienced drinkers?

Again, I'm sharing what I observed here in Malaysia, it does not apply to everyone here or other countries...

Not all puerh are lucrative in pricing. Dayi is the most obvious brand that can get such returns. XiaGuan/Mengku/Hai Wan and other brands are slower in appreciation, unless they are special or suddenly there is a demand for it.

In general, most products from Dayi (new/pre-order) price is quite low and can guarantee an immediate profit. To buy and sell Dayi here is not a difficult task, the most important question is what price did you get initially, and what price you intend to sell. There are people who will buy back from you if price is right.

Put aside other investments return, our local bank Fix Deposit rate is less than 4%/pa. So some here are taking some of their money and buy puerh as part of diversification to their investment. Eg. Dayi Jia Ji Tuo, Buy at MYR4.1 (new/pre-order), keep for 3 years, easily 100% minimum. I'm not saying a lot of people doing this, but there are in the group of tea community.

Main customers?
-Drinkers (buy and drink now)

-Investors (buy, keep for mid term/long term then sell)

-Speculators (buy and sell to others quickly at an immediate profit). This category of people made a lot of money during 2006/2007 (b4 the bubble burst). Some got into trouble doing this and end up with overpriced puerh

-Resellers (buy and resell at own teashop) - this is common as some big distributor can get cheaper price as their quantity is a lot, so other teashops will buy and resell

-Collectors (buy some and collect for hobby/interest) - i fall under this category

[shah82]

Shuangjiang Mengku and Douji does have quite a bit of activity with them, I think. Wild Arbor King and certain other Mengku product lines are appreciating, and Douji products can't be kept on the shelves, here, or in China, as that rapid sellout of the '05 Yiwu at YS attests to...

Say, auhckw, does Douji/Shi Kun Mu have much of a presence in Malaysia?

[auhckw]

Shuangjiang Mengku and Douji does have quite a bit of activity with them, I think. Wild Arbor King and certain other Mengku product lines are appreciating, and Douji products can't be kept on the shelves, here, or in China, as that rapid sellout of the '05 Yiwu at YS attests to...

Say, auhckw, does Douji/Shi Kun Mu have much of a presence in Malaysia?

I have not come across Douji/Shi Kun Mu in the few shops I frequent go, but we shouldn't rule out that there may be some other shops selling them that I may not be aware... there are still plenty unexplored shops for me.

For new tea, some shops would say that Dayi is fast moving followed by XiaGuan and others. There are plenty of other brands (small factories or local vendor custom pressing) too but unless it is special hot item, it will be much slower moving and require the sales person to hard sell. Dayi is usually easier to sell.

So, I've asked few tea sellers why not just sell more Dayi compared to small brands. They said though small brands are usually slower moving and they have to push for sale, their profits are higher. Dayi can be fast moving, but price is open market. Cost is higher to purchase, profits are lower... and most tea shops if possible tries not to hold stock (while waiting for price to gain) as that will mean cash locked.

In general, Puerh (regardless brands) price will appreciate as the tea shops will increase it the over the years. But if talk about general across the lines of products from one brand, Dayi products appreciates faster while other products may/may not appreciate as fast or much (exclude special case).

[bagua7]

Heaven forbid and I hope it doesn't happen: shops could give you real samples to taste in the shop, but sell you a different cake.

Well, sorry to inform you, but it happens. This is a thieves market: yixings, signature teas, famous teas, aged puerhs, shi feng longjing, and all that jazz.

[IPT]

+1
You will not believe the scams I have seen being run. Finding a dealer you trust is vital.

[MarshalN]

Hmm, clearly there's a disconnect between Malaysia prices and China prices both new and old. How much is a current year 7542 there?

y2011 7542 when new/pre-order MYR40++
y2011 7542 today MYR65 (just few months)

y2009 7542 when new/pre-order MYR18
y2009 7542 today MYR70

Those 2009 prices today are quite high

[gingkoseto]

Shuangjiang Mengku and Douji does have quite a bit of activity with them, I think. Wild Arbor King and certain other Mengku product lines are appreciating, and Douji products can't be kept on the shelves, here, or in China, as that rapid sellout of the '05 Yiwu at YS attests to...

Say, auhckw, does Douji/Shi Kun Mu have much of a presence in Malaysia?

I have not come across Douji/Shi Kun Mu in the few shops I frequent go, but we shouldn't rule out that there may be some other shops selling them that I may not be aware... there are still plenty unexplored shops for me.

Douji and Shi Kunmu are like micro-breweries in the field of puerh. Their products are not in such a large amount to make them commonly seen in any country, including China. Douji is expanding and getting larger, but still of very small amount compared to companies such as Mengku Rongshi or Langcang, which are already much smaller than Dayi.

Shi Kunmu is a controversial figure nowadays. I don't agree with all he said, but respect his knowledge in many aspects. Last time I read about him, he is very fond of Malaysia storage of puerh.

[apache]

I wished I could get someone to sell puerh for me there. It seems that there puerh is more lucrative than investing in gold or funds.
Who are the main customers there? new or experienced drinkers?

Again, I'm sharing what I observed here in Malaysia, it does not apply to everyone here or other countries...

Not all puerh are lucrative in pricing. Dayi is the most obvious brand that can get such returns. XiaGuan/Mengku/Hai Wan and other brands are slower in appreciation, unless they are special or suddenly there is a demand for it.

In general, most products from Dayi (new/pre-order) price is quite low and can guarantee an immediate profit. To buy and sell Dayi here is not a difficult task, the most important question is what price did you get initially, and what price you intend to sell. There are people who will buy back from you if price is right.

Put aside other investments return, our local bank Fix Deposit rate is less than 4%/pa. So some here are taking some of their money and buy puerh as part of diversification to their investment. Eg. Dayi Jia Ji Tuo, Buy at MYR4.1 (new/pre-order), keep for 3 years, easily 100% minimum. I'm not saying a lot of people doing this, but there are in the group of tea community.

Main customers?
-Drinkers (buy and drink now)

-Investors (buy, keep for mid term/long term then sell)

-Speculators (buy and sell to others quickly at an immediate profit). This category of people made a lot of money during 2006/2007 (b4 the bubble burst). Some got into trouble doing this and end up with overpriced puerh

-Resellers (buy and resell at own teashop) - this is common as some big distributor can get cheaper price as their quantity is a lot, so other teashops will buy and resell

-Collectors (buy some and collect for hobby/interest) - i fall under this category

After you told us a bit more information of the pu market in Malaysia, now I can the logic behind why you focus on collection Dayi new cakes.

[auhckw]

Hmm, clearly there's a disconnect between Malaysia prices and China prices both new and old. How much is a current year 7542 there?

y2011 7542 when new/pre-order MYR40++
y2011 7542 today MYR65 (just few months)

y2009 7542 when new/pre-order MYR18
y2009 7542 today MYR70

Those 2009 prices today are quite high

That price is the shop's list price. They will normally give discount (10% to 30%) but I agree that it is no longer cheap. Which is why it is not so good deal to buy slightly old Dayi.

The shop said they have no choice but to increase the 2009 cause it cannot be cheaper than 2011 price. So they increased the 2009 to slightly more expensive than 2011. Few of their old Dayi stocks have to increase the price because of the same reason. I think this is one of the Dayi's strategy of increasing older Dayi prices.

Another example:
y2010 Yiwu is MYR95
y2011 Yiwu is MYR160

When y2011 price came out, automatically y2010 Yiwu went out of stock.

[gingkoseto]

This is a thieves market

In my experience, so much better than pharmaceutical industry, food industry, apartment rental...
If tea is a thieves market, I wonder what is not...

[apache]

Shi Kunmu is a controversial figure nowadays. I don't agree with all he said, but respect his knowledge in many aspects. Last time I read about him, he is very fond of Malaysia storage of puerh.

Me really interested, I know nothing about this, could you say more or point to other sources?

[gingkoseto]

Shi Kunmu is a controversial figure nowadays. I don't agree with all he said, but respect his knowledge in many aspects. Last time I read about him, he is very fond of Malaysia storage of puerh.

Me really interested, I know nothing about this, could you say more or point to other sources?

I can't find any English language discussion about him. But for a simplified comparison, Shi Kunmu is somewhat similar to what MarchalN mentioned in his recent blog (http://www.marshaln.com/2011/07/the-king-of-pots/) that tea sellers being tea mentors and have a lot of very loyal students (who are tea drinkers/buyers). But I guess Shi Kunmu is more controversial than most other tea sellers because he has a lot of supernatural theories about tea, which I, like many other people, don't like.

Besides, he critiqued a lot on big factories such as Dayi, which is often cruelly out-straight. I think it (even if 70% true) really helped to learn and think more about big factories. But I can imagine a lot of people who benefit from big factories (either selling it or in other ways) are very mad at him.