What's the appeal of young sheng?

[spinmail]

When I've tried brewing young sheng - specifically, some raw 2009 Menghai 7542 - the taste surprised me. At high temperatures, around 200 degrees F, the liquor had a bitter or "scorched" taste. I get the identical bitter taste after brewing a green tea (like gyokuro) at too high a temperature. (I've tried between 4-6g at various temperatures and combinations, in different vessels.)

On the other hand, when prepared at lower temperatures, the tea seemed to lack the full flavor I'd expected. Most garden variety green teas I've sampled have tasted better than the young sheng.

Is it that some tea fans have grown accustomed to the flavor of "scorched" tea? Or is there a taste component that I'm missing?

[the_skua]

How long are you steeping?

My initial steeps with boiling water and a hefty amount of tea last as long as it takes to fill the vessel and empty it (mere seconds).

I can only imagine the kind of unbridled bitterness that would come from steeping shengpu for 2-3 minutes with boiling water.

[spinmail]

I tried steeping using two different methods. With a gaiwan, the tea was exactly we'd expect: "unbridled bitterness" is a good way to put it

I also tried yixing teapots, but steeping for a matter of seconds left me with an infusion lacking in real flavor - somewhat watery. I realize that different teas have different characters, but puerh is designed to release their character after years of aging, where oxidation and enzymes contribute to the taste and color.

I just brewed a new batch as I type, yixing style. More like a very weak green tea. What are the characteristics of the tea you're coming up with? How does it compare, say, to other green tea or young sheng?

[the_skua]

The few Menghai cakes I've tried (mostly from 2008) have been highly variable, but using about 7g of leaves in a ~4oz yixing, with very brief steeps of just off-boil water I get quite a wide range of flavors. I think my palate has swung towards the super-dry, so perceptible and strong bitterness does not bother me, which may be at issue here.

Across a range of young shengs that haven't been overcooked in the processing, flavors include straw, raisins, "wildness" most akin to Belgian beers fermented with wild yeasts and bacteria, chewy raw grain characters like rice, wheat, and oats, plain clean white sugar sweetness, and a range of pale fruit characters like apple, pear, plum, and strawberry.

The texture almost always has good body, a certain thickness that allows it to linger on the palate. Bitterness appears in a few places, but the good stuff is a longer-lingering back of the throat bitterness that re-surges after you've swallow the tea, bringing complexity with it.

Compared to straight Chinese greens, it's often less toasted, less grassy, and less floral. It usually has a little more weight, more funk and more fruit.

[spinmail]

An edited compilation of comments from a related thread on this forum proves interesting.

Seeker: I suppose young sheng really isn't meant for drinking, is it? But then of course there will be folks who love it even tho - gotta go with what you like, eh.

Maitre-t: I must clarify that using a yixing won't create miracle results, but in my own "experiments" I was surprised by how much of a difference it did make compared to what I originally thought

IPT: I drink a great deal of new Shengpu and quite enjoy it, of course I do like the bitterness of it. A really good new Shengpu shouldn't give you choke throat though.

Bearsbea: The resulting brews are still bitter to most people. My tongue long lost sensitivity to this level of bitterness, and I find most of the teaheads in the LA Tea Affair have similarly seasoned tongues. Frankly: you get used to the bitterness, then you enjoy it, then you wonder where it went until your neighbor tries a cup and exclaims, "so bitter!" with a sour face.

Tenuki: The proper way to drink young shen is to wait another 20 years....

Tatatizia: I'm agree with you

wyardley: Part of it depends if you're brewing for taste / enjoyment, or brewing to stress the tea / decide if it's good. Also depends who you ask - I don't think there's one "proper" way. Some people do like to brew young sheng closer to green tea. I tend to brew it with a heavier hand, but I don't usually drink young sheng for enjoyment.

zhi zheng: There are a whole slew of things that can make sheng taste bitter or harsh: from the kind of tree the leaves come from, the way the leaves are picked, the way the tea is manufactured, etc. down to the way it's brewed. You may well be able to mitigate some of the effects of a questionable tea by adjusting your brewing parameters but it's highly unlikely, if that's what you've got, that you're going to be able to 'make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.'

Debunix: I don't know how generalizable this experience was, but at least this young sheng (the 2009 Lao Mansa) wanted to be treated much more like a young green tea than like an old smooth puerh.

The possible conclusions:
1. New sheng isn't for drinking.
2. Don't expect miracles in your experiments with green puerh.
3. New sheng is thought to be bitter by some, who may even like it.
4. New sheng is bitter to others, who have gotten used to it.
5. The proper way to enjoy puerh is to wait 20 years (x3).
6. Conclusions on young sheng suggest it's not typically for enjoyment.
7. Brewing conditions vary, but your best results may help you make a silk purse from a sow's ear.
8. Young sheng is better treated like a green tea than a puerh.

The info here has been edited somewhat, but casts some light on why green puerh has such polarizing reactions.

[the_skua]

I think many would disagree with those potential conclusions. Some responses:

1. New sheng isn't for drinking.

I and many others drink it and enjoy it regularly. It's for drinking.

2. Don't expect miracles in your experiments with green puerh.

The same can be said for any tea.

3. New sheng is thought to be bitter by some, and may even like it.
4. New sheng is bitter to many, but have gotten used to it.

Absolutely.

5. The proper way to enjoy puerh is to wait 20 years (x2).

Aged tea can be better, but it's also vastly different. And how is one to know if a tea is going to be any good in twenty years if one doesn't know how it tastes today?

6. Conclusions on young sheng suggest it's not typically for enjoyment.

Rubbish. See 1.

7. Brewing conditions vary, but your best results may help you make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

What?

8. Young sheng is best treated more like a green tea than a puerh.

Brew to taste, man. Brew to taste.

[Maitre_Tea]

just to clarify, I feel that the quote you nabbed from me is a bit misleading. I believe my comment was in a discussion of the difference between brewing in a pot and a gaiwan. Using a pot won't create dramatic differences compared to brewing with a gaiwan (IMO), but somehow you took away from that:

"Don't expect miracles in your experiments with green puerh."

I think things like changing water, adjusting brewing parameters, etc. can all potentially create a better experience when brewing pu-erh, but it certainly won't make an awful tea taste heavenly.

Also, all those conclusions you came to? They're all correct

[pb2q]

7. Brewing conditions vary, but your best results may help you make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

This quote was referring specifically to questionable [puerh] tea, not young sheng in general:

There are a whole slew of things that can make sheng taste bitter or harsh: from the kind of tree the leaves come from, the way the leaves are picked, the way the tea is manufactured, etc. down to the way it's brewed. You may well be able to mitigate some of the effects of a questionable tea by adjusting your brewing parameters but it's highly unlikely, if that's what you've got, that you're going to be able to 'make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.'

http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 4&p=141956

It does not follow from the quote that the author feels that:

• all young sheng is questionable tea, or that:
• when brewing young sheng, the best case is that one is making a silk purse from a sow's ear.

8. Young sheng is better treated like a green tea than a puerh.

Similarly, this quote was referring to a specific tea.

Your generalizations are heavy handed.


I haven't tried to brew any '09 7542 so I can't comment on the quality of this tea. There is sheng from the last year that I (infrequently) drink because I enjoy it.

[spinmail]

Thanks so far for your contributions to a topic that addresses my original concern: what accounts for the variance in opinion re: a specific Menghai raw (by no means my only tasting of puerh - only my most recent).

When I taste, say, a gyokuro, I find that it's best brewed around 140 degrees F, for about a minute, to achieve optimal taste. For a good Darjeeling, I would prefer to steep at 212 degrees F for around five minutes. Increasing the gyokuro temperature to 212 degrees and brewing for five minutes will result in scorched tea, while the Darjeeling might be under-brewed and under-flavored. Some times may vary somewhat according to the grade of tea, general type, and so on.

However, with raw puerh, my findings have varied considerably. Some tasters enjoy the "edge" of a near boiling steep; others have noted that raw puerh is best brewed at about the temperature of green tea. Some puerh drinkers feel that new sheng can taste just fine as it is; a number of others have claimed that the "proper" way to enjoy puerh is to age it for 20 years. While general "rules" for brewing leaf teas have led to rough but dependable guidelines, it seems that puerh drinkers use the tea under a wide range of temperatures (140 to 212F), using various methods of brewing (gaiwan to puerh tea pot). Choices of optimal preparation can depend on personal preference. "Brew to taste," one forum participant suggests.

My original goal was to find some reliable or consistent way of enjoying young sheng. There doesn't seem to be one.

[bearsbearsbears]

My original goal was to find some reliable or consistent way of enjoying young sheng. There doesn't seem to be one.

Maybe for you, there's not a way...and I'm happy to hear it! All the better for those of us who buy it young to have less price pressure!

Now you can abandon pu and focus on teas you know you like. All the better for you, too.

[nickE]

My original goal was to find some reliable or consistent way of enjoying young sheng. There doesn't seem to be one.

Maybe for you, there's not a way...and I'm happy to hear it! All the better for those of us who buy it young to have less price pressure!

Now you can abandon pu and focus on teas you know you like. All the better for you, too.

+1

If you don't like it, don't drink it. More for people who do enjoy it.

[debunix]

My original goal was to find some reliable or consistent way of enjoying young sheng. There doesn't seem to be one.

I'm generally a bitterphobe, won't drink most black teas because I find them unacceptably bitter, and preferred my Norbu 2009 Lao Mansa brewed cooler, like a green tea, but found the best results with some Norbu 2009 Lao Ban Zhang loose Mao Cha at boiling, very short infusions after a long 'rinse' to get rid of a lot of the bitterness.

Two 2009 shengs, same purveyor, same palate, and very different approaches. The only right answer is 'brew to [YOUR] taste'. And if it is a tea that is enjoyed by a lot of folks whose palates seem compatible with yours, try, try again a bunch of times before you give up.