Official Pu of the day

[Rui]

I Enjoy Islay whisky quite a bit. So I have never really understood why people find smoky notes in Puerh troubling.

On the other hand I enjoy smoky pu'er teas but I cannot stand Islay whisky. As to Scotch I am more of a sherry cask whisky like Aberlour or MacAllan.

[AdmiralKelvinator]

I had a really good session with Wisterias 03 ZiPinHao.
I have been using a new water for my older Puerh lately. Mountain valley spring water. It is from Hot Springs national park in Arkansas. It is a little heavy for younger teas but it really works well with older stuff. It is pretty expensive though so I have only been using it for special teas.

The ZPH is a tea I've enjoyed a lot as well, though I've had trouble nailing it down. There are times when it comes out incredibly smoky－like Islay Scotch levels of peaty smoke. Luckily I enjoy me a dram or two of the good stuff from time to time as well, otherwise I might be quite put off.

If you don't mind sharing, I would love to hear more about how you brewed this. Do you brew in a gaiwan or a yixing? By heavy water, you mean it has a high TDS yes? Might be worth a shot!

I Enjoy Islay whisky quite a bit. So I have never really understood why people find smoky notes in Puerh troubling.

I brewed about 9 grams in 115 ml Zhuni pot.
The water that I used naturally contains
Calcium74ppm
Magnesium 7.3ppm
Potasium 1.0ppm
Total dissolved solids 220ppm
PH of 7.8
Luckily it gives me all that info on the bottle

I would think those parameters for water would not be a good fit with Puerh. Too soft and too many TDS. But, if it works for you, great.

I think the difference in smokiness between Islay Single Malts and Puerhs is quite different. Tea is a very delicately flavored drink. Whiskey is distilled and flavor becomes part of the drink from beginning to end. Smoke in Puerh dissipates as you drink it. To me, I couldn't compare the two.

I've often wondered what exactly gives Puerh its smokiness. Given that it isn't charcoal roasted or even exposed to significant heat past the kill green stage, it's quite interesting that it develops such flavors over time, isn't it? I've never heard a convincing explanation for this phenomenon.

Gasninja, thanks for the info. I've been experimenting lately with drinking puerh out of a (modern) zhuni that I have so maybe I'll give the ZPH a shot with it as well.

EDIT: Tead Off, maybe I'm confused but how can a tea be too soft and have too many TDS at the same time? What is your definition of soft water then?

[Tead Off]

Admiral,

The smokiness comes from the farmers storing the puerh in enclosed environment and then using a wood fire without proper ventilation. The smoke permeates the room and the tea picks it up. With larger factory tea, they may even add in purposely. Lots of Puerh is not smoky, too. Puerh is pan roasted for the kill green so smoke can also permeate it if there is not proper ventilation.

The water described by gasninja is a high ph, high TDS water. This type of water is softer tasting than filtered tap or lower ph, lower TDS mineral waters. I've found water like this very good for Japanese teas like sencha and gyokuro, but too soft in taste for brewing oolongs and black teas. For puerh, I could see someone using it and liking it, but in my experience, some of taste of Puerh is not brought out. It's not a hard and fast rule and is really a subjective call.

[BW85]

The water described by gasninja is a high ph, high TDS water. This type of water is softer tasting than filtered tap or lower ph, lower TDS mineral waters. I've found water like this very good for Japanese teas like sencha and gyokuro, but too soft in taste for brewing oolongs and black teas. For puerh, I could see someone using it and liking it, but in my experience, some of taste of Puerh is not brought out. It's not a hard and fast rule and is really a subjective call.

I always linked "soft" watet with low TDS and "hard" water with high TDS

[kyarazen]

I've often wondered what exactly gives Puerh its smokiness. Given that it isn't charcoal roasted or even exposed to significant heat past the kill green stage, it's quite interesting that it develops such flavors over time, isn't it? I've never heard a convincing explanation for this phenomenon.

bad weather and a need for the leaves to be quickly withered and processed into dry maocha for storage is the key culprit. whether smoke will turn into cooling/camphorous notes will depend on luck, whether the fire was burning camphorous or soft woods.

[Tead Off]

The water described by gasninja is a high ph, high TDS water. This type of water is softer tasting than filtered tap or lower ph, lower TDS mineral waters. I've found water like this very good for Japanese teas like sencha and gyokuro, but too soft in taste for brewing oolongs and black teas. For puerh, I could see someone using it and liking it, but in my experience, some of taste of Puerh is not brought out. It's not a hard and fast rule and is really a subjective call.

I always linked "soft" watet with low TDS and "hard" water with high TDS

I'm not very scientific when I use words like soft and hard for water. The definitions may be different than mine. I am only going by the taste of the water in my mouth. Higher ph and higher TDS taste soft to me, less crisp. Hope this helps understand my view.

[.m.]

hard water (high mineral content) = soft taste.
english (and other european languages) have got it all wrong! lol

[Rui]

Tea WG Prestige pu'er that a colleague of mine brought me from HK. It brings back memories of the tea, three years ago, that made me start drinking pu'er in the first place.

[AdmiralKelvinator]

The water described by gasninja is a high ph, high TDS water. This type of water is softer tasting than filtered tap or lower ph, lower TDS mineral waters. I've found water like this very good for Japanese teas like sencha and gyokuro, but too soft in taste for brewing oolongs and black teas. For puerh, I could see someone using it and liking it, but in my experience, some of taste of Puerh is not brought out. It's not a hard and fast rule and is really a subjective call.

I always linked "soft" watet with low TDS and "hard" water with high TDS

I'm not very scientific when I use words like soft and hard for water. The definitions may be different than mine. I am only going by the taste of the water in my mouth. Higher ph and higher TDS taste soft to me, less crisp. Hope this helps understand my view.

How each of us describes taste is a very interesting subject. Each person has their own personal way of making analogies I think. Even the terms hard and soft are of course quite metaphorical when applied to water (similar to the way we describe certain colors as "warm" or "cool"). Quite a lot of synesthesia goes on in our daily lives I think. As for the earlier confusion, perhaps I would make the distinction that high TDS ("hard") water tastes "rounded" while low TDS ("soft") water tastes "crisper". The confusion could arise in that "soft" and "rounded" resemble each other dictionary-definition-wise but are being used in quite different contexts in this case. An interesting conflation of terminologies.

As for "smoke" in Puer, if it is indeed something that occurs during the intial processing stages of the tea, that would lead me to believe there would be fresh puer that was also quite smokey as well, no? I personally have only tasted this smoky quality in middle-aged and older puers, but perhaps there are other members who could add their experience here.

[Tead Off]

By fresh, I'm assuming you mean newly pressed cakes? Yes, many are smoky to begin with. Older cakes don't acquire smoke unless they are kept in an atmosphere of smokiness which most aren't. It's the processing stage where this happens. The cakes then make their way to distributors and dealers 'pre-smoked' in many cases.

[jayinhk]

2013 YS Hui Run ripe. Thick, sweet and slightly salty, with a lovely date aftertaste and just a hint of bitterness. Some wo dui left over, but I think that will pass quickly. Really nice tea. I may pick up the 2015 version too!

[puyuan]

Trying Sanhetangs top teas from recent years. Very small single-brew samples. Lucky to have a couple that were very small productions and shouldn't have been available in sample sizes. I'm only missing the Fenghua Zaixian.

The real pricy Wangzhes (not the one Houde sells) - Almost pure Bohetang, a tea I'm very familiar with. It's either only a small proportion of the other (Wangong) tea that is blended in these cakes, or the WG comes from a garden exceedingly similar to BHT. They are different, the 2012 and 2013, but I feel like I have tasted both variations on this theme before, and more than once. Found them both exceptionally boring. I honestly don't know if I've overdrunk teas from this place, if I'm having a bad tea week, or if they really are as boring as I think. Most likely a combination of the 3. I like my 13 autumn BHT more, though it's weaker in taste.

I have to gather my thoughts about the 14 Red Mark. It's surely a high-grade tea and the chaqi is very strong, but I didn't impress me that much in the mouth. I was probably expecting more complexity, since it's a fairly varied blend. Mouthfeel wasn't that impressive either. I will try a few more brews later today.

Imo, the Chawabing blows them out of the water, and it's much cheaper.

Afterwards I'll try the Diangu 14 and 15, a very limited forest Yibang production (large leaves) and another Red Mark sample which I don't know if it's the 14 that the seller added again by mistake or if it's the 2015. He doesn't know either, so I'll have to figure it out. (The 2015 isn't a blend.)

Sunsing is selling a "Year 2000 fermented puerh" that is very decent for the price, if memory doesn't fail. I can't even remember the last time I liked a shu. Had it to cleanse the palate yesterday and it surprised me.

P.s. Another tea I've tried - The Zidane (lol) cake from BTH. Forgot the actual name. I've bought a 2015 and a 2010. I can't fathom the markup over the maocha in this cake, but otherwise I found the 2015 to be exceedingly fairly priced. Nice huigan, elegant, seemingly excellent processing, very strong qi. It actually impressed me quite a bit. It's a profile of tea that I know has its non-fans, who might find it a little hollow, but I'd recommend it.
For all its reputation, I actually scored a couple of other somewhat bargainy teas at BTH.

[jayinhk]

Tried YS's 2015 "Green Miracle" shu. Tastes a lot like the 2013 Hui Run--even has the same mouth feel. For $20 it might be worth stocking up!

[Rdeitz]

Tried YS's 2015 "Green Miracle" shu. Tastes a lot like the 2013 Hui Run--even has the same mouth feel. For $20 it might be worth stocking up!

This is a great tea. One of the best house ripes I've tried from YS. Note that cakes are 250g.

[jayinhk]

Yeah, I noticed that after I posted. Still comes out a little cheaper than the Hui Run! I think I've bought enough pu erh for the year, so I'll hold off on new purchases for now. Got a Chawang order coming in too.