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Jun 26th, '09, 12:45
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Do blacks have antioxidants and ECGC like green tea does?

by Katmandu » Jun 26th, '09, 12:45

I was wondering if anyone had some real data on this ...I know lots of peeps say its as good as green for you but I'm not too sure now.... I drink sooooo much black tea this is why Im asking. Wanna make sure Im getting the health benefits from tea and maybe I need more green I dont know..
Thanks in advance! :)

Jun 26th, '09, 12:52
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by shah82 » Jun 26th, '09, 12:52

If you want to supplement, then drink some red/green rooibos.

Otherwise, drink green tea because you love it!

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Jun 26th, '09, 12:56
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by Janine » Jun 26th, '09, 12:56

http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/featu ... -black-tea

"Whether it's green or black, tea has about eight to 10 times the polyphenols found in fruits and vegetables."

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Jun 26th, '09, 15:52
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by Katmandu » Jun 26th, '09, 15:52

great article Janine, I love it!!! Thank u

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by silverneedles » Jun 26th, '09, 22:54

not really helpful,
repeating the number 10 and some catchy words.

"10 times the amount of antioxidants ... by one estimate."
1 estimate does not make a conclusion valid.

there's a mention of a USDA chart but no link or more info what that chart is for.

maybe someone can google something more relevant

what i googlefound was an interesting USDA chart for ORAC
Oxygen Radical Absorbance Capacity of Selected Foods
http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Pl ... ORAC07.pdf

Plums, raw Total-ORAC umol TE/100 g 6259
Tea, green, brewed Total-ORAC umol TE/100 g 1253
Sweet potato, cooked, baked in skin, without salt Total-ORAC umol TE/100 g 2115
Spices, cinnamon, ground Total-ORAC umol TE/100 g 267536 :shock:

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Jun 27th, '09, 04:55
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by sriracha » Jun 27th, '09, 04:55

I guess 100 g of cinnamon would make you very, very ill though. :?

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Jun 27th, '09, 14:20
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by Janine » Jun 27th, '09, 14:20

Kat - you're welcome :-)

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Jun 28th, '09, 09:48
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by Aphroditea » Jun 28th, '09, 09:48

Spices, cinnamon, ground Total-ORAC umol TE/100 g 267536

Wow - we chai drinkers will outlive you all...muhahahaha! *cough* I mean, wow, didn't realize the drink was quite so healthy for me. :D

Jun 28th, '09, 14:02
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by Intuit » Jun 28th, '09, 14:02

Ask, and you shall receive.

Black tea and cardiovascular disease. International Journal of Epidemiology 2005 34(2):482-483 (2005).

Extract: Potential protective effects of black tea against cardiovascular disease and cancer are attributed to polyhenol compounds and flavonoids/flavonols, including catechin/EGCG and theaflavin. The authors admit that they lacked a data-based approach for selecting foods/beverages contributory to certain nutrients in order to assess intake of flavonols/theaflavins from black tea.

We can assume from the literature that black tea is a major source of catechin/EGCG, but comparisons within several cups of black tea may not have enough power to detect any favourable effects of catechin/EGCG. In other words, a dose–response relationship could not be proven even after taking into account confounding coffee consumption. Although thus far inconsistent, some beneficial effects have been experienced with large intakes of black/green tea, such as ≥10 cups/day. We need a wide range of comparisons for cups of black tea to evaluate possible protective effects, if any, on cardiovascular disease.

The concentrations of catechin/EGCG in black tea are rather less than in green tea. In addition, antioxidant activity of black tea scored by oxygen radical absorbing capacity (ORAC) is lower than that for green tea. Furthermore, flavenoids are supplied to a greater extent by vegetables and fruit than several cups of black tea. Thus the authors should, at least, adjust for effects of consumption of vegetables and fruit.

Finally, it is known that folate is antiangiogenic because it is a cofactor in the metabolism of homocysteine to methionine. According to our recent study,9 folate is supplied by green tea along with vegetables and fruit; however, its content in black tea is far less than in green tea. Black tea thus seems generally less anticarcinogenic, antimutagenic, and antiangiogenic than green tea. Moreover, any fluids/beverages, including water, black/green tea, and coffee, may be important in terms of blood viscosity and excretion/dilution of mutagenic and carcinogenic substances.

Full paper in pdf download format may be found at:
http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/34/2/482


Here is a general rationale that is easily applied for distinguishing the general redox buffering of a food or beverage. The more processed and oxidized it is, the higher the reducing equivalents necessary to convert 'antioxidants' to it's beneficial (reduced) form in your cells.

Every antioxidant needs its redox 'couple' (partner) to convert it back to its reduced state after it 'does it's thing' and reduces an oxidant that can damage nucleic acids, membranes or proteins in cells. This is just as true for vitamin C, E, and other antioxidants as it is tea polyphenols.

Secondly, many antioxidant species in black teas have reacted with nearby plant cell wall constituents to form larger phenolic complexes that react with oral cavity receptors, contributing to the complex flavors of black and oolong teas. These fermentation complexes (theaflavins and thearubigens) appear to have health benefits of their own with respect to cardiovascular disease and stroke risk.

Your best bet is to mix it up, drinking both green and black teas, and making sure you include at the very least 5-8 servings of fruits and vegetables in your daily diet.

Protective beneficial effects of improved antioxidant intake can be evident in as little as a few weeks, once dietary changes are made, especially if they precede the adoption of daily physical exercise and are accompanied by adequate sleep (correct sleep hygiene includes quality AND quantity of sleep at appropriate hours) and de-stressing techniques.

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Jun 28th, '09, 15:38
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by silverneedles » Jun 28th, '09, 15:38

Intuit wrote:"Protective beneficial effects of improved antioxidant intake can be evident in as little as a few weeks,"
what is this conclusion based on ?
----------------------

just because a substance is an antioxidant doesnt mean it will help decrease/prevent disease in the human body. see Vitamin E and heart disease.
----------------------

the body has "natural" inborn mechanisms to deal with oxidative stress.
----------------------

this chase of counting antioxidants is a giant pile of BS, fueled by businessmen who dont have issue profiting from people looking for a quick fix to their health + consumers who do not question what is in front of them and eat whatever is fed to them if it sounds like it will make them natural-organic-healthy 1-2-3 done.
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alot of studies counting antioxidants are based on the extraction of the flavonoids using chemicals and/or methods that are not used in day to day tea drinking. Using different types of chemicals will yield more or less amounts of flavonoids.
----------------------

there are almost no studies (i say almost, because tho i havent found/remember any i assume there might be some somewhere) that prove drinking tea decreases disease incidence(="prevention")/prevalence of a disease.
----------------------

measuring brachial artery diameter on a couple women does not mean you can conclude (like that author did) that not adding milk to tea in England will impact the cardiovascular disease rates they are experiencing... silly

Image
----------------------

but to respond to the original question: yes, blacks have antioxidants.

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Jun 28th, '09, 21:17
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by MASALACHAAAAIIIIII » Jun 28th, '09, 21:17

This is a great website for research papers, They seem to have alot on tea... Too bad I have to go to the library to read these for free. Or else I would post a tiny bit. BUT you can still read the abstracts, and sometimes the conclusions. Google can be your friend, BUT peer reviewed journals and primary literature are much better and WAY more reliable. Hate watching the news or looking in a magazine with their claims and nothing to back it up... A lot of woahbots out their.

Thanks for sparking my interest in the chemistry of tea....really should be studying hahaha

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_o ... dc831da6de

Atleast tea will be better for you than say, a soda duh! haha

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Jun 28th, '09, 21:18
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by MASALACHAAAAIIIIII » Jun 28th, '09, 21:18

Intuit wrote:Ask, and you shall receive.

Black tea and cardiovascular disease. International Journal of Epidemiology 2005 34(2):482-483 (2005).

Extract: Potential protective effects of black tea against cardiovascular disease and cancer are attributed to polyhenol compounds and flavonoids/flavonols, including catechin/EGCG and theaflavin. The authors admit that they lacked a data-based approach for selecting foods/beverages contributory to certain nutrients in order to assess intake of flavonols/theaflavins from black tea.

We can assume from the literature that black tea is a major source of catechin/EGCG, but comparisons within several cups of black tea may not have enough power to detect any favourable effects of catechin/EGCG. In other words, a dose–response relationship could not be proven even after taking into account confounding coffee consumption. Although thus far inconsistent, some beneficial effects have been experienced with large intakes of black/green tea, such as ≥10 cups/day. We need a wide range of comparisons for cups of black tea to evaluate possible protective effects, if any, on cardiovascular disease.

The concentrations of catechin/EGCG in black tea are rather less than in green tea. In addition, antioxidant activity of black tea scored by oxygen radical absorbing capacity (ORAC) is lower than that for green tea. Furthermore, flavenoids are supplied to a greater extent by vegetables and fruit than several cups of black tea. Thus the authors should, at least, adjust for effects of consumption of vegetables and fruit.

Finally, it is known that folate is antiangiogenic because it is a cofactor in the metabolism of homocysteine to methionine. According to our recent study,9 folate is supplied by green tea along with vegetables and fruit; however, its content in black tea is far less than in green tea. Black tea thus seems generally less anticarcinogenic, antimutagenic, and antiangiogenic than green tea. Moreover, any fluids/beverages, including water, black/green tea, and coffee, may be important in terms of blood viscosity and excretion/dilution of mutagenic and carcinogenic substances.

Full paper in pdf download format may be found at:
http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/34/2/482


Here is a general rationale that is easily applied for distinguishing the general redox buffering of a food or beverage. The more processed and oxidized it is, the higher the reducing equivalents necessary to convert 'antioxidants' to it's beneficial (reduced) form in your cells.

Every antioxidant needs its redox 'couple' (partner) to convert it back to its reduced state after it 'does it's thing' and reduces an oxidant that can damage nucleic acids, membranes or proteins in cells. This is just as true for vitamin C, E, and other antioxidants as it is tea polyphenols.

Secondly, many antioxidant species in black teas have reacted with nearby plant cell wall constituents to form larger phenolic complexes that react with oral cavity receptors, contributing to the complex flavors of black and oolong teas. These fermentation complexes (theaflavins and thearubigens) appear to have health benefits of their own with respect to cardiovascular disease and stroke risk.

Your best bet is to mix it up, drinking both green and black teas, and making sure you include at the very least 5-8 servings of fruits and vegetables in your daily diet.

Protective beneficial effects of improved antioxidant intake can be evident in as little as a few weeks, once dietary changes are made, especially if they precede the adoption of daily physical exercise and are accompanied by adequate sleep (correct sleep hygiene includes quality AND quantity of sleep at appropriate hours) and de-stressing techniques.
well crap hahahahaha, didn't see this post NICE!

Mar 20th, '10, 02:30
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Re: Do blacks have antioxidants and ECGC like green tea does?

by kelvin00 » Mar 20th, '10, 02:30

Thanks for the amazing posts, I really think its neat that they added antioxidants to the natural medications, which help improve the immune system.

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