Why the big deal with YiXing ware???

[kymidwife]

Thanks Cheaton and Maitre_Tea for the great answers... which prompt a couple more questions...


As for the temperature factor... heat retention is most important for black teas and pu, yes? Is this as big a deal for greener oolongs? I think of greener oolongs being safe to cool off faster because the leaf is delicate, but then I don't have much experience with true gongfu, so I am thinking that the short duration of infusion makes heat retention more important in order to get the full complexity out of the leaf... is that right?

OK... now for the part about having a vacuum seal... is this all about heat retention too, or is there some other factor to keeping the pot sealed? I am bad about lifting the pot lid to check the aroma mid-infusion and then putting the lid back on, and I'm sure this is probably bad due to heat loss... i am trying to correct my many errors! Is the vacuum important for more than heat retention?

Thanks for providing the science behind the art... I know I am such a slacker, but my skills are a work in progress.

Sarah

[wyardley]

1. Using not the dragon pot
2. Preheat your pot with rolling boil water
3. Drop in the TGY to fill 1/5 of your pot
4. Pour the same boiled water into the pot to fill and over float
5. Discard the rinse immediately
6. Let the tea sit for 30 sec. no water
7. Pour in the same boiled water and fill only less than half your pot for the rest of your brewing. Do not fill it up.
8. 1st brew 15 sec. (try to doc. the color of the brews)
9. 2nd brew 20 sec.
10. 3rd brew 40 sec.
[...]
Basically there is an initial rinse #4. Then in #7 the real brewing requires refilling the pot to half-full. This is way different from the instructions I read some years back (url unknown).

I can't speak for Tim, but I'm guessing that he's suggesting this modification because your pot is so big. Using an appropriately sized pot and filling it all the way would be better, but this way will work too. With rolled oolongs in a round pot, the volume of the pot does matter somewhat, not just because you'll get a better heat seal, but because some people think it's actually good if the tea completely fills the pot and the leaves are forced against the top / sides of the pot, releasing more oils / flavor.

It seems that temperature measurement is not a concern.

Well everyone has their own opinions on this. A lot of people say that a good quality tea (and certainly a good quality oolong) should be able to handle boiling water, even if it's on the greener side. I don't personally measure anything or use a thermometer, but I do usually try to get the water to as close to a full rolling boil in whatever I'm using. That's especially true for the initial rinse of a rolled oolong like TGY -- the boiling water will help the leaves open more quickly. Depending on the interval between infusions, you can probably be lazy and not reheat before every brew.

If the tea doesn't taste good with boiling water, either get better quality tea, or reduce the water temperature slightly. If using cooler water tastes better to you, by all means, use it. Unlike some delicate greens, I don't think you can really "cook" oolongs completely, so if you use water that's a little too hot, you can simply adjust by letting the water cool off before brewing the next round.

Also, just keep in mind that TGY (and oolongs in general) can be anywhere on a very broad continuum in terms of oxidation and roasting. So vague questions like "how can I brew Tie Guan Yin" or "how can I brew oolongs" sometimes get sarcastic answers, because there isn't one answer. Even with more information, like anything in tea, there are no firm answers; we can only make suggestions.

Does the method you listed pertain to TKY's as well as the Bai Hao oolongs?

If you notice, he mentioned that the method he's suggesting is for TGY [Tie Guan Yin is a different romanization of Tie Kuan Yin]. The volume, number of steepings and such wouldn't be the same for Bai Hao.

I think most people would recommend using porcelain rather than yixing for most Oriental Beauty / Bai Hao. And you'll definitely want to have water at a full rolling boil and reboil for each steep for that one.

[wyardley]

[quote="kymidwife"
OK... now for the part about having a vacuum seal... is this all about heat retention too, or is there some other factor to keeping the pot sealed? I am bad about lifting the pot lid to check the aroma mid-infusion and then putting the lid back on, and I'm sure this is probably bad due to heat loss... i am trying to correct my many errors! Is the vacuum important for more than heat retention?
[/quote]

I can't answer your question directly, but I will tell you that I don't take the lid off the pot mid-brew, and I have rarely / never seen anyone else do it. I can't tell you if there's a scientific reason for this... I just do it because that's what I've always heard you're supposed to do, and that's good enough for me.

I will do this [remove the lid to see if it's fragrant] with a gaiwan, maybe more often than I should, and haven't noticed it causing major problems.

If nothing else, I'd think that besides breaking the seal, it would push a lot of tea out of the pot.

[tjkoko_off]

Wyardley stated:

I think most people would recommend using porcelain rather than yixing for most Oriental Beauty / Bai Hao. And you'll definitely want to have water at a full rolling boil and reboil for each steep for that one.

So for Bai Hao, a smaller, porcelaine teapot is still recommended in the range of 3-4 oz capacity? Rinse leaves with boiling water and then discard? Brew 15 sec using boiling water?

EDIT: I plan to get some quality TKY from Hou de Asian or from Jing Tea shop, restrictin my brewing to the smaller, plainer pot depicted earlier.

Can someone please recommend a quality 4 oz YiXing pot for small volume brewing? I seek simplicity in design but quality in the clay that's used. And we're not talking something costing $250. Again, simplicity with quality clay.

TIA!!,

Terry

[edkrueger]

Here are many options. http://stores.ebay.com/Yunnan-Sourcing- ... idZ2QQtZkm

[tjkoko_off]

THanks, Ed Krueger.

For teapot making, is there an article or link available that discusses the various clays used and their attributes?

[cheaton]

Sarah, I'd say there's no real ill consequences to removing the lid now and then to smell or look. Filling a pot halfway would be more like leaving the lid off the whole time, but probably not quite that extreme. I do agree that itwouldn't effect greener oolongs as much, but it would still make a difference. The longer you can hold the temperature the more you're going to get out of the period of time you're brewing for. It's all a curve.

[taitea]

Isn't heat retention not really that big of an issue a lot of time since many gong fu infusions might be under 10 seconds?

I can only see it mattering for long enough infusions, 30 seconds at least...

[Maitre_Tea]

Isn't heat retention not really that big of an issue a lot of time since many gong fu infusions might be under 10 seconds?

I can only see it mattering for long enough infusions, 30 seconds at least...

Well, ten seconds probably towards the beginning of a gong fu cycle, but as soon as you get to the 4th, 5th, etc. steeping heat retention will be more important, because you might be leaving it there for up to 3 minutes.

[TIM]

TIM wrote:

tjkoko, this might help for understanding yixing and brewing oolong: http://chadao.blogspot.com/200...d-new.html

I do think your pot are way too big for brewing oolong, 350 ml pots are for serving 6-8 people. That means less time in brewing since the volume of water is far greater then tea. Translate to the temp. of your brewing water is way higher then a smaller vessel. If you don't mind trying this recommendation for brewing:

1. Using not the dragon pot
2. Preheat your pot with rolling boil water
3. Drop in the TGY to fill 1/5 of your pot
4. Pour the same boiled water into the pot to fill and over float
5. Discard the rinse immediately
6. Let the tea sit for 30 sec. no water
7. Pour in the same boiled water and fill only less than half your pot for the rest of your brewing. Do not fill it up.
8. 1st brew 15 sec. (try to doc. the color of the brews)
9. 2nd brew 20 sec.
10. 3rd brew 40 sec.

WOW!!!!!! I visited that blogspot. Now, paraphrasing, I see what you mean by "full pot of leaves". I plan to follow your instructions quite soon.

Basically there is an initial rinse #4. Then in #7 the real brewing requires refilling the pot to half-full. This is way different from the instructions I read some years back (url unknown).

It seems that temperature measurement is not a concern.

A question:

Does the method you listed pertain to TKY's as well as the Bai Hao oolongs?

Bai Hao is a much easier tea to brew compare to light or roasted oolong, since most of the "proper" Bai Hao are 45-75 oxidized. More like Red tea then light oolong, and the cultivial is more tolerance to heat.

[ABx]

As for the temperature factor... heat retention is most important for black teas and pu, yes? Is this as big a deal for greener oolongs? I think of greener oolongs being safe to cool off faster because the leaf is delicate, but then I don't have much experience with true gongfu, so I am thinking that the short duration of infusion makes heat retention more important in order to get the full complexity out of the leaf... is that right?

Jade oolongs are not as delicate as you might think; they actually usually benefit from fully boiling water in yixing. I didn't realize it until I was brewing some yinya (basically baozhong with silver tips) for a friend and myself. I was bring mine in a thin porcelain gaiwan, and his in a yixing gaiwan, and I noticed that his were coming out noticeably rounder and with more aroma. But yes, the better heat retention does draw out more of just about everything from the leaf

[TIM]

As for the temperature factor... heat retention is most important for black teas and pu, yes? Is this as big a deal for greener oolongs? I think of greener oolongs being safe to cool off faster because the leaf is delicate, but then I don't have much experience with true gongfu, so I am thinking that the short duration of infusion makes heat retention more important in order to get the full complexity out of the leaf... is that right?

Jade oolongs are not as delicate as you might think; they actually usually benefit from fully boiling water in yixing. I didn't realize it until I was brewing some yinya (basically baozhong with silver tips) for a friend and myself. I was bring mine in a thin porcelain gaiwan, and his in a yixing gaiwan, and I noticed that his were coming out noticeably rounder and with more aroma. But yes, the better heat retention does draw out more of just about everything from the leaf

You are right ABX jade, Li Shan, DYL and Bai Hou aka Oriental beauty are all Taiwanese oolong, and the better one are more tolerant to higher temp. But when you are talking about TGY from Anxi, they are way more sensative.

[gingkoseto]

But when you are talking about TGY from Anxi, they are way more sensative.

For Anxi TGY, the traditional roast responds to high temperature well too. But the "green" kind, when left in boiling temperature for too long, will generate the unpleasant "cooked vegetable soup" flavor. It seems to me that traditional roast is always the easiest to deal with. After all, in ancient time, when a man held an yixing pot all day long, he wouldn't always have a gong fu pitcher in his hands as well

[TIM]

But when you are talking about TGY from Anxi, they are way more sensative.

For Anxi TGY, the traditional roast responds to high temperature well too. But the "green" kind, when left in boiling temperature for too long, will generate the unpleasant "cooked vegetable soup" flavor. It seems to me that traditional roast is always the easiest to deal with. After all, in ancient time, when a man held an yixing pot all day long, he wouldn't always have a gong fu pitcher in his hands as well

Of course Gingko, fine aged traditional fired Anxi TGY responds well too any boiling temp.... just if you can still find them : P Anxi TGY from my experience (besides the competition grade or Mother tree stuff) is the most expensive oolong on the market. So, to waste another 6 months for the roasting process and 1 more year to settle the fire = loss profit for tea vendors.

Anyhow, in ancient time (Ming Dynasty) a man will held an yixing in his palm all day, pouring the warm tea directly into his mouth, so I guess either boiling water was not always available or he must had a mighty 1st degree burned mouth?

[tjkoko_off]

TIM stated:

Anyhow, in ancient time (Ming Dynasty) a man will held an yixing in his palm all day, pouring the warm tea directly into his mouth, so I guess either boiling water was not always available or he must had a mighty 1st degree burned mouth?

Years ago I watched a film produced by a Chinese crew. The plot took place way out in the countryside. In one of the scenes the Chinese actor, who portrayed a drifter and therefore was probably "destitute", actually placed the YiXing teapot's spout in his mouth and drank from it.