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On Muo Lvni Clay (Yixing Subthread)

by CheekyChipmunk » Feb 15th, '17, 01:06

Hi Chatters,

I've been admiring blue (Muo Lvni) yixing pots for a while, but thinking that I'd never find a high quality one as it is a scarcely used clay it seems. While there seem to be plenty of modern pots with similar blue hues, I'm hoping to hear from those who own the real as to get an idea of the characteristics of the clay (things such as colour tones, density/weight, textures, particle size and combinations etc.). From what I can gather, this clay does not naturally exist in the blue hues found after firing, i.e. it is the result of human mixing of clays/chemicals. Is this correct or is there a type of raw unadulterated clay which these pots originate from? If so, what sort of time period were these clays mined and pots produced from? The reason I enquire is that I may have located some genuine articles but as I am unable to find much meaningful information on what to expect from fine quality muo lvni, I was hoping you guys lucky enough to have some in your collection may be able to outline some things to look for so that I may make a somewhat informed decision as to whether to purchase one from my possible source.

Thanks in advance,

L

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Re: On Muo Lvni Clay (Yixing Subthread)

by tingjunkie » Feb 16th, '17, 22:22

Image

Out of the 45 or so pots I own, this is still my favorite. If you've been drooling over MLN, I'm betting you already know the source was Tim at the Mandarin's Tearoom.. This one is 40ml and beautifully made. I actually scored a much less well made 80ml MLN shuiping from 5000friend on eBay a few years ago. Craftsmanship is less than stellar but the clay and firing is legit. The real clay From Ben Shan is sandy, and when you look closely it's easy to see green/yellow and blue particles mixed uniformly. To my knowledge, there is no natural blue Yixing clay, and the color is achieved by mixing cobalt oxide in with the Ben Shan lu ni. I could be wrong about that, though. Like all good clay, fired properly, it can handle almost any tea. I use mine for high fired oolongs though.

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Re: On Muo Lvni Clay (Yixing Subthread)

by tingjunkie » Feb 16th, '17, 22:52

The real clay should take a patina quickly if fired properly. Here is a high res photo of my 40ml pot after some heavy use. Even with the heavy patina, you can still make out the different colors of sand mixed in. https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8525/8540 ... 6000_o.jpg

If you have good pics of the pots you are thinking about, I can probably tell you if they are legit or not.

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Re: On Muo Lvni Clay (Yixing Subthread)

by Tead Off » Feb 16th, '17, 23:39

tingjunkie wrote:The real clay should take a patina quickly if fired properly. Here is a high res photo of my 40ml pot after some heavy use. Even with the heavy patina, you can still make out the different colors of sand mixed in. https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8525/8540 ... 6000_o.jpg

If you have good pics of the pots you are thinking about, I can probably tell you if they are legit or not.
Tingjunkie, you moved from Brooklyn to Maui. This is quite a jump to make. How do you find living there? And do you foresee this as a more or less 'permanent' place to live? Which part of Maui?

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Re: On Muo Lvni Clay (Yixing Subthread)

by tingjunkie » Feb 16th, '17, 23:50

Tead Off wrote: Tingjunkie, you moved from Brooklyn to Maui. This is quite a jump to make. How do you find living there? And do you foresee this as a more or less 'permanent' place to live? Which part of Maui?
Close. Bronx to Maui! Been here two years now. Getting on our feet was a bit of a challenge (finding jobs, used cars, an apartment, etc.) but doing fantastic now! Not sure if it's a permanent thing, only because real estate prices here are just plain unaffordable. My wife and I get to live in Iao Valley rent free because we live as caretakers of the nature center property where I work doing outdoor education with kids. Can't complain too much, but I wish there were more serious tea folks around... and decent Chinese food.

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Re: On Muo Lvni Clay (Yixing Subthread)

by Tead Off » Feb 17th, '17, 00:21

tingjunkie wrote:
Tead Off wrote: Tingjunkie, you moved from Brooklyn to Maui. This is quite a jump to make. How do you find living there? And do you foresee this as a more or less 'permanent' place to live? Which part of Maui?
Close. Bronx to Maui! Been here two years now. Getting on our feet was a bit of a challenge (finding jobs, used cars, an apartment, etc.) but doing fantastic now! Not sure if it's a permanent thing, only because real estate prices here are just plain unaffordable. My wife and I get to live in Iao Valley rent free because we live as caretakers of the nature center property where I work doing outdoor education with kids. Can't complain too much, but I wish there were more serious tea folks around... and decent Chinese food.
Even paradise is not perfect!

Living in rural areas always has its trade offs with small conveniences and social interactions. Life brings many unexpected turns. Enjoy the beauty!

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Re: On Muo Lvni Clay (Yixing Subthread)

by tingjunkie » Feb 17th, '17, 02:49

Much thanks, TO. :D

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Re: On Muo Lvni Clay (Yixing Subthread)

by CheekyChipmunk » Feb 17th, '17, 07:43

tingjunkie wrote:Image

Out of the 45 or so pots I own, this is still my favorite. If you've been drooling over MLN, I'm betting you already know the source was Tim at the Mandarin's Tearoom.. This one is 40ml and beautifully made. I actually scored a much less well made 80ml MLN shuiping from 5000friend on eBay a few years ago. Craftsmanship is less than stellar but the clay and firing is legit. The real clay From Ben Shan is sandy, and when you look closely it's easy to see green/yellow and blue particles mixed uniformly. To my knowledge, there is no natural blue Yixing clay, and the color is achieved by mixing cobalt oxide in with the Ben Shan lu ni. I could be wrong about that, though. Like all good clay, fired properly, it can handle almost any tea. I use mine for high fired oolongs though.
Hi Ting,

Thanks a lot for you posts. You pretty much answered all of my questions and I feel much more informed now as to the feel and nature of good quality MLN! I have indeed been drooling over MLN for a while, especially your prized pot! I really find the lustre and colouring of the clay very attractive and the fact that your pot is doing all the right things to the tea is like icing on the cake! I will be dropping in soon to inspect the 3 or so articles that may be what I am after (the store closed until Tuesday), at which time I'll endeavour to take close ups of the clay with my phone camera (best I've got unfortunately).

I guess I just have one more question. That is, what was the hue of blue of your fav MLN before it acquired a patina? What I mean by this is that I remember when last at the store in question seeing the blue pots and having a bit of a look at them and thinking that the shade of blue looked noticeably lighter than pics I had seen of MLN online (probably your pot in particular). However, the first picture you posted appears to show quite a light shade of blue comparable to the ones from the shop. Did your fav pot have this lighter shade of blue before gaining the lovely deeper shade of blue in the other pics from the seasoning of the patina? Or is the first pic of the lower-quality crafted pot?

Thanks again,

L

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Re: On Muo Lvni Clay (Yixing Subthread)

by tingjunkie » Feb 17th, '17, 19:58

The series of 3 pics are all the same pot (or technically, the top pic is of a pot from the same batch of 40ml pots as mine), so yes, that's what the clay looked like before earning a patina. Here is the 80ml pot after being used with roasted oolongs about 5-6 times.

Image

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Re: On Muo Lvni Clay (Yixing Subthread)

by CheekyChipmunk » Feb 18th, '17, 10:45

tingjunkie wrote: The series of 3 pics are all the same pot (or technically, the top pic is of a pot from the same batch of 40ml pots as mine), so yes, that's what the clay looked like before earning a patina. Here is the 80ml pot after being used with roasted oolongs about 5-6 times.

Image
Ah fantastic! I feel like I'm starting to join all the dots together. Thanks so much for your help! I'm eagerly awaiting Tuesday to check out the store, I'll be in touch after then!

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Re: On Muo Lvni Clay (Yixing Subthread)

by kyarazen » Feb 19th, '17, 22:13

whether natural or not.. there is always a reason for the blue/green/dark color, which is the presence of chromium compounds (which can be natural/synthetic). thats how jewels, gems, rocks, stones get their colors anyway, i.e. lead transition elements gave great colors to glass and glazes, mercurial compounds for the lovely reds, arsenic compounds for the ochre, yellow, softer reds, iron oxides for the black, purple reds, etc etc etc.

clay is just mashed up stones/rocks.. so color hues can exist.

is there natural MLN? yes, evidence in some records and examples from the qing dynasty to ROC. is there any chance of them importing pigments and color additives from overseas to add to clay? needs to be investigated and re-rationalized (some of the very early blue glazes of blue/white porcelain were imported from persia/afghan).

is there an effect on tea for this clay material? of course there will be.. :) tea's a metal scavenger, that is why you can use it to de-rust iron, or change color of metals etc. copper ions, iron, chrome, manganese, silver, tin, aluminum, lead etc, have different effects on the aromatic properties and mouth feels.

depending on the base material the chrome additives are added to, the final clay color will be different :D

CheekyChipmunk wrote: Hi Chatters,

I've been admiring blue (Muo Lvni) yixing pots for a while, but thinking that I'd never find a high quality one as it is a scarcely used clay it seems. While there seem to be plenty of modern pots with similar blue hues, I'm hoping to hear from those who own the real as to get an idea of the characteristics of the clay (things such as colour tones, density/weight, textures, particle size and combinations etc.). From what I can gather, this clay does not naturally exist in the blue hues found after firing, i.e. it is the result of human mixing of clays/chemicals. Is this correct or is there a type of raw unadulterated clay which these pots originate from? If so, what sort of time period were these clays mined and pots produced from? The reason I enquire is that I may have located some genuine articles but as I am unable to find much meaningful information on what to expect from fine quality muo lvni, I was hoping you guys lucky enough to have some in your collection may be able to outline some things to look for so that I may make a somewhat informed decision as to whether to purchase one from my possible source.

Thanks in advance,

L

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Re: On Muo Lvni Clay (Yixing Subthread)

by bagua7 » Feb 22nd, '17, 02:00

tingjunkie wrote:This one is 40ml and beautifully made.
It's a wonderful pot, no doubt about that...but I find it painful using pots of such a small capacity, the tea cools off way too fast and I live in hot and humid Australia. Wouldn't fathom brewing shou pu in freezing cold Sweden using a 40mL pot.

Anyway, how do you manage?
Last edited by bagua7 on Feb 22nd, '17, 02:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: On Muo Lvni Clay (Yixing Subthread)

by bagua7 » Feb 22nd, '17, 02:05

tingjunkie wrote:
Tead Off wrote:Can't complain too much, but I wish there were more serious tea folks around... and decent Chinese food.
Hawaiian air quality and the almighty ocean will take care of any inconveniences. Personally I think it's a great move. I wouldn't last 2-3 min in 'da Bronx.' :D Yuck!

You'll always have the online tea brotherhood to make up for it. :)

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Re: On Muo Lvni Clay (Yixing Subthread)

by tingjunkie » Feb 22nd, '17, 02:33

bagua7 wrote:
Hawaiian air quality and the almighty ocean will take care of any inconveniences. Personally I think it's a great move. I wouldn't last 2-3 min in 'da Bronx.' :D Yuck!

You'll always have the online tea brotherhood to make up for it. :)
Nah, homie... don't badmouth the Bronx. It's a cool little town.

As far as the 40ml pot, it's perfect for Chaozhou style preparation of high fire TGY for one.

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Re: On Muo Lvni Clay (Yixing Subthread)

by CheekyChipmunk » Feb 22nd, '17, 03:52

bagua7 wrote:
tingjunkie wrote:This one is 40ml and beautifully made.
It's a wonderful pot, no doubt about that...but I find it painful using pots of such a small capacity, the tea cools off way too fast and I live in hot and humid Australia. Wouldn't fathom brewing shou pu in freezing cold Sweden using a 40mL pot.

Anyway, how do you manage?
I'm also in Aus but a less humid part. Plenty hot still! Small pots can keep the tea plenty warm if you are doing short sharp infusions one after another. I use a 50ml Jian Shui for Sheng that works a treat. The only way it comes out cold is if I don't warm the pot first before doing the rinse

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