organic vs. conventional taste
I don't mean to start a debate, but would like to know if there is general agreement among green tea enthusiasts as to how the taste profiles of organic and conventional teas differ (particularly Japanese teas). I have gathered from reading posts, blogs,etc., that generally speaking, it is difficult for organic teas to achieve the quality and depth of flavor of conventional teas. Is this the case, or am I mis-informed? Thanks
Re: organic vs. conventional taste
See here for banter and controversy on the topic...
http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10165
http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10165
Re: organic vs. conventional taste
Use of modern synthetic fertilizers and pest/pathogen control agrochemicals has changed plant culture, production capacity, where plants can be grown, and to an extent, the taste of produce.
Natural farming methods were the rule, not the exception, before the mid-twentieth century.
You are not so much misinformed, as underexposed. Teas grown under modern mass production conditions of intense agrochemical management are the exception, not the norm, if we broaden our view to include centuries-long history of tea cultivation.
New catalysis and reactor technology methods of the later 20th century, coupled with vastly increased petroleum chemical base stock production, decreased the cost of modern agrochemical crop management. A relatively calm period of major economic growth (same period) in developing nations enabled major 'improvements' in food production.
Tea cropping in lush river valleys in Asia required tea plant genetic adaptation to hotter, humid/wet conditions over extended production periods. It also required liberal application of pesticides to ward off insects that congregated in densely planted tea gardens and herbicides to manage the weeds, with applicators wearing virtually no protective gear.
Inevitably, new cultivars and changes in tea processing yielded changes in typical tea flavors, and for some teas, South China pu'erhs, some Japanese greens and many SE Asian oolongs, tea processing changes were significant. Add to this climate change, and you have a dynamic situation when comparing traditional versus modern perceived quality and flavor of teas.
Natural farming methods were the rule, not the exception, before the mid-twentieth century.
You are not so much misinformed, as underexposed. Teas grown under modern mass production conditions of intense agrochemical management are the exception, not the norm, if we broaden our view to include centuries-long history of tea cultivation.
New catalysis and reactor technology methods of the later 20th century, coupled with vastly increased petroleum chemical base stock production, decreased the cost of modern agrochemical crop management. A relatively calm period of major economic growth (same period) in developing nations enabled major 'improvements' in food production.
Tea cropping in lush river valleys in Asia required tea plant genetic adaptation to hotter, humid/wet conditions over extended production periods. It also required liberal application of pesticides to ward off insects that congregated in densely planted tea gardens and herbicides to manage the weeds, with applicators wearing virtually no protective gear.
Inevitably, new cultivars and changes in tea processing yielded changes in typical tea flavors, and for some teas, South China pu'erhs, some Japanese greens and many SE Asian oolongs, tea processing changes were significant. Add to this climate change, and you have a dynamic situation when comparing traditional versus modern perceived quality and flavor of teas.
Oct 16th 09 6:17 pm
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Re: organic vs. conventional taste
Japanese greens. I always tell people who have been drinking conventionally grown tea, especially in terms of Japanese greens, to not have the "same expectations" when trying an organic. It simply almost has to be quite different.
They can both be enjoyed, but the organics are almost a different class of tea, they are generally that different. My perception is that after a long reliance upon conventionally grown teas, there has been improvements in their organic counterparts over the last several years. Or at least better sourcing.
However, organic production is still an extremely small percentage of the total green tea production in Japan
They can both be enjoyed, but the organics are almost a different class of tea, they are generally that different. My perception is that after a long reliance upon conventionally grown teas, there has been improvements in their organic counterparts over the last several years. Or at least better sourcing.
However, organic production is still an extremely small percentage of the total green tea production in Japan
Re: organic vs. conventional taste
Debate?Ramsay wrote:I don't mean to start a debate, but would like to know if there is general agreement among green tea enthusiasts as to how the taste profiles of organic and conventional teas differ (particularly Japanese teas). I have gathered from reading posts, blogs,etc., that generally speaking, it is difficult for organic teas to achieve the quality and depth of flavor of conventional teas. Is this the case, or am I mis-informed? Thanks
Just think about all the ways big business has us thinking about the world and making our choices for us. No one is exempt from this influence. Sometimes it comes in the guise of benefits that you will receive and the improvement in the quality of your life.
To my way of thinking, if you want to experience tea the way it is supposed to taste, carefully cultivated, and, environmentally friendly, you choose organic. Conventional farming adds chemical fertilizers that will 'enhance' and change the flavor profile. Is this a change in quality? I don't think so. There are plenty of outstanding organic teas both in China and Japan that contradict this statement of quality that tea sellers push. This is not to say that every organic tea is high quality. It takes more than the growing of the tea for quality to reach a high level. The processing of the tea is also vital. My argument is simply to point out that quality is a subjective opinion that has been formed at the consumer's and the earth's expense. If you are given a choice, do you really want to put poisons into your body when you are not forced to? And, this argument about Japanese teas being so low in pesticides that they are safe is another 'good one' that they want you to swallow.
Re: organic vs. conventional taste
Currently drinking Warashina Asamushi Sencha (Organic) from O-Cha, which is easily the best organic Japanese green I've had to date, so much depth of flavour.
I think Chip is right, the quality of organic offerings have come on leaps and bounds within the last year or so.
Jack
I think Chip is right, the quality of organic offerings have come on leaps and bounds within the last year or so.
Jack
Re: organic vs. conventional taste
Tead Off wrote: Debate?
Just think about all the ways big business has us thinking about the world and making our choices for us. No one is exempt from this influence. Sometimes it comes in the guise of benefits that you will receive and the improvement in the quality of your life.
To my way of thinking, if you want to experience tea the way it is supposed to taste, carefully cultivated, and, environmentally friendly, you choose organic. Conventional farming adds chemical fertilizers that will 'enhance' and change the flavor profile. Is this a change in quality? I don't think so. There are plenty of outstanding organic teas both in China and Japan that contradict this statement of quality that tea sellers push. This is not to say that every organic tea is high quality. It takes more than the growing of the tea for quality to reach a high level. The processing of the tea is also vital. My argument is simply to point out that quality is a subjective opinion that has been formed at the consumer's and the earth's expense. If you are given a choice, do you really want to put poisons into your body when you are not forced to? And, this argument about Japanese teas being so low in pesticides that they are safe is another 'good one' that they want you to swallow.
How about those businesses who would like to scare the bejesus out of everyone that non-organic green tea is dangerous to one's health and full of poisons so that you'll buy their niche organic product? My friend, it works both ways. Both organic and non-organic green teas are tested for maximum residue levels and guess what? They both have some minute levels. There is an acceptable level that is considered safe and it doesn't matter one iota whether the item was grown organically or not. Your opinion on how a green tea is "supposed to taste" and what constitutes "quality" is extremely subjective I would say.
Oct 17th 09 6:46 pm
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Re: organic vs. conventional taste
Interesting ... although in the question about taste, if I recall correctly in another topic, you proclaimed a non organic tea you recently had as the best Japanese green you had ever tasted.Tead Off wrote: Just think about all the ways big business has us thinking about the world and making our choices for us. No one is exempt from this influence. Sometimes it comes in the guise of benefits that you will receive and the improvement in the quality of your life.
To my way of thinking, if you want to experience tea the way it is supposed to taste, carefully cultivated, and, environmentally friendly, you choose organic. Conventional farming adds chemical fertilizers that will 'enhance' and change the flavor profile. Is this a change in quality? I don't think so. There are plenty of outstanding organic teas both in China and Japan that contradict this statement of quality that tea sellers push. This is not to say that every organic tea is high quality. It takes more than the growing of the tea for quality to reach a high level. The processing of the tea is also vital. My argument is simply to point out that quality is a subjective opinion that has been formed at the consumer's and the earth's expense. If you are given a choice, do you really want to put poisons into your body when you are not forced to? And, this argument about Japanese teas being so low in pesticides that they are safe is another 'good one' that they want you to swallow.
If you read my post, I am certainly NOT arguing that there are very good organics out there. They tend to be milder, and according to Yuuki-Cha also require the use of more leaf in order to achieve the desired results when brewing. This almost certainly is due to fertilizer use in conventional versus organic.
Whether a tea is organic or conventional, fertilizer in one form or another must be used or the tea will simply taste like bleh. There are no wild tea trees in Japan used in the production of tea.
And last I heard, something like 98% of all tea produced in Japan is not organic, I guess a lot of people do not share your fears ... or have fallen under the spell of the evil Japanese conventional growing tea industry who must have the Japanese government on their payroll.
However since you have decided to attack the tea industry and just about every food producer as well, I guess I have to wonder, is all your food fully certified organic ... all of it?
Is your clothing produced in an organic manner? This is agriculture after all. But also the actual production of the cloth? Chemicals and dyes, are they in your clothing?
Do you add to the pollution problems at the "earth's expense" in other areas of your lifestyle?
Re: organic vs. conventional taste
Kevin's comment on pesticide/herbicide residuals is correct, however, the concentration of the residuals is going to be different in directly applied conventional farmed green teas versus wind- or water-carried indirect chemical contamination of organically farmed teas from adjacent conventionally managed agricultural lands.
Conventionally farmed teas will be lower in pesticide residuals than teas produced a decade or more ago, for several reasons. Regulatory pressure to reduce residuals and recent 'generation' pesticide chemical qualities.
Trace Level Organochlorine and Organophosphorous Pesticides Analysis in
Green Tea by SBSE-GC-TOFMS (2006). This is a technical paper meant to demonstrate a newer detection technique. You can find the pdf on the web by searching on the title. This is a reasonably sensitive detection method (low parts per trillion range).
The paper introduction opens with the a statement of the regulatory drivers for pesticide use reduction in Japanese green teas:
"Chemical pesticide, fungicide, and herbicide trace level residues found in Green Tea is a concern that has gained international attention. The European Union (EU) adopted regulations in 2001 reducing residual pesticide tolerance levels in tea by one hundred times.
The Japanese Positive list for maximum residual limits of agricultural chemicals in food was made effective in 2006. The United States EPA also regulates pesticide limits in food. Given the economic impact of tea crops worldwide and the widespread consumption of green tea for health benefits, this study examines five different teas for the trace level presence of22 organochlorine (OCP's) and organophosphorous (OPP's) pesticides."
The paper's results section:
" Quantitative results indicate that the various green tea types tested showed no significant concentrations of organochlorine and organophosphorous pesticides. However, three different brands of green tea did show trace levels of pesticide residue at ppt to low ppb levels."
ppt=parts per trillion, ppb = parts per billion
http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/2 ... 933848.php
Current Status of Pesticide Residue Analysis for Tea Products and Future Prospects. Yusa YOSHIO, Kumiai Chem. Ind. Co., Ltd., Japan.
Proceedings of Vegetable and Tea Science. No.2. pages 71-77(2005)
Abstract: 'The pesticide residue analytical method of tea has been announced under the Food Sanitation Law and Agricultural Chemicals Control Act. While in tea except powdered tea the boiling water extraction method has been adopted in most cases, recently the solvent extraction method tends to increase. The simultaneous multicomponent analysis method for general screening is not suitable for pesticide analysis applied to tea. In the provisional residue standard (draft) to be enforced in 2006, 18 kinds of agricultural chemicals are added for tea. For labor saving and speedup, improvement of the tea analysis method by popularization of the LC-MS-MS analysis is expected.'
The method developed in the first paper responds directly to a plea for improved detection methods that don't require unusual or sophisticated sample extraction methods - as this is the source of significant contaminant residual error when low concentrations of pesicide are expected.
Now, the larger reason for the reduction in residuals: beginning in about the mid-to-late 1980s, pesticide/herbicide manufacturers responded to government regulatory pressure to reduce chemical toxicity by reducing chemical contaminant residuals on food and on environment surfaces.
This was accomplished by the following:
Compounds were made that were more readily degradable and had shorter 'residence' times in the environment. To do this, compounds were made to be more water soluble (could wash off and not stick so tightly to surfaces). The compounds were made less toxic by this change in solubility (partitioned less into lipid/fat layers of test organisms, could be more readily excreted by higher organisms).
The compounds were degradable, because they didn't stick to soils and sediments and therefore could not 'hide' from UV-radiation, the most prevalent environmental degradation process. Soils/sediment surfaces 'stabilize' compounds from an energy kick when the compound/surface absorbs UV energy. When the compounds are in water phase, they are more susceptible to UV-degradation as they move through the environment, except where they are buried.
When buried, these compounds still degrade at much faster rates than earlier generations of toxic pesticides/herbicides, because some of the more soluble new compounds and the UV-degraded products can also taken up and further degraded by microbes, under specific conditions.
The primary reduction in environmental toxicity is due to less 'stickiness' and greater susceptibility to UV-radiation, with significantly shorter environmental lifetimes (period after application and before breakdown).
Conventionally farmed teas will be lower in pesticide residuals than teas produced a decade or more ago, for several reasons. Regulatory pressure to reduce residuals and recent 'generation' pesticide chemical qualities.
Trace Level Organochlorine and Organophosphorous Pesticides Analysis in
Green Tea by SBSE-GC-TOFMS (2006). This is a technical paper meant to demonstrate a newer detection technique. You can find the pdf on the web by searching on the title. This is a reasonably sensitive detection method (low parts per trillion range).
The paper introduction opens with the a statement of the regulatory drivers for pesticide use reduction in Japanese green teas:
"Chemical pesticide, fungicide, and herbicide trace level residues found in Green Tea is a concern that has gained international attention. The European Union (EU) adopted regulations in 2001 reducing residual pesticide tolerance levels in tea by one hundred times.
The Japanese Positive list for maximum residual limits of agricultural chemicals in food was made effective in 2006. The United States EPA also regulates pesticide limits in food. Given the economic impact of tea crops worldwide and the widespread consumption of green tea for health benefits, this study examines five different teas for the trace level presence of22 organochlorine (OCP's) and organophosphorous (OPP's) pesticides."
The paper's results section:
" Quantitative results indicate that the various green tea types tested showed no significant concentrations of organochlorine and organophosphorous pesticides. However, three different brands of green tea did show trace levels of pesticide residue at ppt to low ppb levels."
ppt=parts per trillion, ppb = parts per billion
http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/2 ... 933848.php
Current Status of Pesticide Residue Analysis for Tea Products and Future Prospects. Yusa YOSHIO, Kumiai Chem. Ind. Co., Ltd., Japan.
Proceedings of Vegetable and Tea Science. No.2. pages 71-77(2005)
Abstract: 'The pesticide residue analytical method of tea has been announced under the Food Sanitation Law and Agricultural Chemicals Control Act. While in tea except powdered tea the boiling water extraction method has been adopted in most cases, recently the solvent extraction method tends to increase. The simultaneous multicomponent analysis method for general screening is not suitable for pesticide analysis applied to tea. In the provisional residue standard (draft) to be enforced in 2006, 18 kinds of agricultural chemicals are added for tea. For labor saving and speedup, improvement of the tea analysis method by popularization of the LC-MS-MS analysis is expected.'
The method developed in the first paper responds directly to a plea for improved detection methods that don't require unusual or sophisticated sample extraction methods - as this is the source of significant contaminant residual error when low concentrations of pesicide are expected.
Now, the larger reason for the reduction in residuals: beginning in about the mid-to-late 1980s, pesticide/herbicide manufacturers responded to government regulatory pressure to reduce chemical toxicity by reducing chemical contaminant residuals on food and on environment surfaces.
This was accomplished by the following:
Compounds were made that were more readily degradable and had shorter 'residence' times in the environment. To do this, compounds were made to be more water soluble (could wash off and not stick so tightly to surfaces). The compounds were made less toxic by this change in solubility (partitioned less into lipid/fat layers of test organisms, could be more readily excreted by higher organisms).
The compounds were degradable, because they didn't stick to soils and sediments and therefore could not 'hide' from UV-radiation, the most prevalent environmental degradation process. Soils/sediment surfaces 'stabilize' compounds from an energy kick when the compound/surface absorbs UV energy. When the compounds are in water phase, they are more susceptible to UV-degradation as they move through the environment, except where they are buried.
When buried, these compounds still degrade at much faster rates than earlier generations of toxic pesticides/herbicides, because some of the more soluble new compounds and the UV-degraded products can also taken up and further degraded by microbes, under specific conditions.
The primary reduction in environmental toxicity is due to less 'stickiness' and greater susceptibility to UV-radiation, with significantly shorter environmental lifetimes (period after application and before breakdown).
Re: organic vs. conventional taste
http://www.japanfs.org/en/mailmagazine/ ... 27809.html
'Eco-farmed' green teas in Japan are on the order of a few percent of the total; the document above suggests that there is a growing movement towards attaining the minimum Eco-Farming standards certification, using a sensible step plan that allows farmers to gain recognition for reduction in pesticide use.
This is another reason for a marked and relatively recent reduction in pesticide/herbicide residuals detected on Japanese green teas.
The issue of taste differences with commercial versus 'organic' fertilizers is a much more interesting problem. Two chemical attributes, umami (savory/glutamate/invigorating) and theanine (sweetness, calming), as well as the related compound gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA, calming), are tied to the nitrogen-cycle in tea bush roots, stems and leaves. This nitrogen cycle is also tied to natural formation of antioxidants in tea.
I will take a wildass guess and suggest that the rate of nitrogen uptake, dictated by soil nitrogen type (slow vs faster release) at key leaf production and growth periods in late winter/early spring will effect the rate of nitrogen compound biosynthesis and accumulation of these desirable flavor components in tea leaves and stems.
And that will translate to differences in apparent leaf quality/taste in tea infusions. Organic fertilizers are inherently slow-release, requiring many weeks to months for microbial breakdown that allows plant uptake of biodigested nitrogen sources in natural fertilizers in the root zone.
I think this *may* (guarded reasoning here, because we have no data on hand other than previous reports of tea leaf nitrogen chemistry) explain the difference in taste and leaf loading required.
Edited for clarity.
'Eco-farmed' green teas in Japan are on the order of a few percent of the total; the document above suggests that there is a growing movement towards attaining the minimum Eco-Farming standards certification, using a sensible step plan that allows farmers to gain recognition for reduction in pesticide use.
This is another reason for a marked and relatively recent reduction in pesticide/herbicide residuals detected on Japanese green teas.
The issue of taste differences with commercial versus 'organic' fertilizers is a much more interesting problem. Two chemical attributes, umami (savory/glutamate/invigorating) and theanine (sweetness, calming), as well as the related compound gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA, calming), are tied to the nitrogen-cycle in tea bush roots, stems and leaves. This nitrogen cycle is also tied to natural formation of antioxidants in tea.
I will take a wildass guess and suggest that the rate of nitrogen uptake, dictated by soil nitrogen type (slow vs faster release) at key leaf production and growth periods in late winter/early spring will effect the rate of nitrogen compound biosynthesis and accumulation of these desirable flavor components in tea leaves and stems.
And that will translate to differences in apparent leaf quality/taste in tea infusions. Organic fertilizers are inherently slow-release, requiring many weeks to months for microbial breakdown that allows plant uptake of biodigested nitrogen sources in natural fertilizers in the root zone.
I think this *may* (guarded reasoning here, because we have no data on hand other than previous reports of tea leaf nitrogen chemistry) explain the difference in taste and leaf loading required.
Edited for clarity.
Last edited by Intuit on Oct 18th 09 12:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: organic vs. conventional taste
I do agree with you up to a point. Heavy pesticide use is common in the tea business. Given the choice, I opt for non pesticide sprayed teas. Airborne particles is something not controllable except if farmers stopped spraying.Kevangogh wrote:Tead Off wrote: Debate?
Just think about all the ways big business has us thinking about the world and making our choices for us. No one is exempt from this influence. Sometimes it comes in the guise of benefits that you will receive and the improvement in the quality of your life.
To my way of thinking, if you want to experience tea the way it is supposed to taste, carefully cultivated, and, environmentally friendly, you choose organic. Conventional farming adds chemical fertilizers that will 'enhance' and change the flavor profile. Is this a change in quality? I don't think so. There are plenty of outstanding organic teas both in China and Japan that contradict this statement of quality that tea sellers push. This is not to say that every organic tea is high quality. It takes more than the growing of the tea for quality to reach a high level. The processing of the tea is also vital. My argument is simply to point out that quality is a subjective opinion that has been formed at the consumer's and the earth's expense. If you are given a choice, do you really want to put poisons into your body when you are not forced to? And, this argument about Japanese teas being so low in pesticides that they are safe is another 'good one' that they want you to swallow.
How about those businesses who would like to scare the bejesus out of everyone that non-organic green tea is dangerous to one's health and full of poisons so that you'll buy their niche organic product? My friend, it works both ways. Both organic and non-organic green teas are tested for maximum residue levels and guess what? They both have some minute levels. There is an acceptable level that is considered safe and it doesn't matter one iota whether the item was grown organically or not. Your opinion on how a green tea is "supposed to taste" and what constitutes "quality" is extremely subjective I would say.
How a tea is supposed to taste is subjective. But, what I was referring to was the taste of tea without 'enhancements'. You as a seller know that often what you describe in a tea is not shared commonly. We all taste differently. But, what I am referring to is simply tea in its non-tampered with state. This is not unreasonable, right?
Re: organic vs. conventional taste
Chip, your point is well taken. We can only choose what is available to us and I am not that anal about all of this in spite of how I might sound.Chip wrote:Interesting ... although in the question about taste, if I recall correctly in another topic, you proclaimed a non organic tea you recently had as the best Japanese green you had ever tasted.Tead Off wrote: Just think about all the ways big business has us thinking about the world and making our choices for us. No one is exempt from this influence. Sometimes it comes in the guise of benefits that you will receive and the improvement in the quality of your life.
To my way of thinking, if you want to experience tea the way it is supposed to taste, carefully cultivated, and, environmentally friendly, you choose organic. Conventional farming adds chemical fertilizers that will 'enhance' and change the flavor profile. Is this a change in quality? I don't think so. There are plenty of outstanding organic teas both in China and Japan that contradict this statement of quality that tea sellers push. This is not to say that every organic tea is high quality. It takes more than the growing of the tea for quality to reach a high level. The processing of the tea is also vital. My argument is simply to point out that quality is a subjective opinion that has been formed at the consumer's and the earth's expense. If you are given a choice, do you really want to put poisons into your body when you are not forced to? And, this argument about Japanese teas being so low in pesticides that they are safe is another 'good one' that they want you to swallow.
If you read my post, I am certainly NOT arguing that there are very good organics out there. They tend to be milder, and according to Yuuki-Cha also require the use of more leaf in order to achieve the desired results when brewing. This almost certainly is due to fertilizer use in conventional versus organic.
Whether a tea is organic or conventional, fertilizer in one form or another must be used or the tea will simply taste like bleh. There are no wild tea trees in Japan used in the production of tea.
And last I heard, something like 98% of all tea produced in Japan is not organic, I guess a lot of people do not share your fears ... or have fallen under the spell of the evil Japanese conventional growing tea industry who must have the Japanese government on their payroll.
However since you have decided to attack the tea industry and just about every food producer as well, I guess I have to wonder, is all your food fully certified organic ... all of it?
Is your clothing produced in an organic manner? This is agriculture after all. But also the actual production of the cloth? Chemicals and dyes, are they in your clothing?
Do you add to the pollution problems at the "earth's expense" in other areas of your lifestyle?
I try to buy organic food but can't always get everything I want. No choice. But, in tea, there is a choice. So, for me, it's easy.
The Hibiki-an tea that I said was the best sencha I've had was a gift to me from a friend. It's delicious tea. Will I buy it? No, because there are good organics available.
I'm not attacking the teas, but, the tea industry. I know it's not easy for many growers but the issues are many and complex. Drinkers demanding organic teas will only help in stopping the rampant use of pesticides for the guarantee of bigger business and more profits. Don't you agree?
Re: organic vs. conventional taste
Great thread here and the timing is eerie. I was just reading on one of the organic tea vendor's site about how pesticides are applied once or twice shortly before harvest. Are they trying to scare us? Probably, but it does make sense that you would spray new shoots and leaves to protect them before harvest. If this is true then we are drinking certain amounts of those pesticides.
Today, it was time to open a new bag of sencha and which did I choose? I have a bag of organic sencha which just arrived. Did I open it? No.
I instinctively reached for a bag of super-fertilized sencha because I know it will likely have a lot more flavor. It's a hard habit to break. I do want to drink more organic sencha but sometimes it does disappoint.
Today, it was time to open a new bag of sencha and which did I choose? I have a bag of organic sencha which just arrived. Did I open it? No.
I instinctively reached for a bag of super-fertilized sencha because I know it will likely have a lot more flavor. It's a hard habit to break. I do want to drink more organic sencha but sometimes it does disappoint.Re: organic vs. conventional taste
Could you please show your source for this information, specifically as to how it applies in Japan to Japanese green tea? (Not China)Tead Off wrote:Heavy pesticide use is common in the tea business.