Help a newbie out! Sencha/Shincha

Made from leaves that have not been oxidized.


User avatar
Jun 20th, '08, 14:28
Posts: 5151
Joined: Dec 20th, '06, 23:33
Scrolling: scrolling
Location: Gainesville, Florida
Been thanked: 1 time

by Salsero » Jun 20th, '08, 14:28

GeekgirlUnveiled wrote: Wish I could find a few more.
You are not alone in that wish.

User avatar
Jun 20th, '08, 16:20
Posts: 20891
Joined: Apr 22nd, '06, 20:52
Scrolling: scrolling
Location: Back in the TeaCave atop Mt. Fuji
Been thanked: 2 times

by Chip » Jun 20th, '08, 16:20

kymidwife wrote:Henley... me too! There are so many things I hear mentioned here, and I sort of *know* there is a green out there somewhere that I will just love, but I haven't found it yet.

<nudges Chip>

I suggest a..... Green tea box pass! :wink:
Interesting idea. The biggest problem with sencha is short shelf life once opened. Green tea in general faces this problem, though I have had certain Chinese greens open for months and no ill effect. Sencha is just not as forgiving. It may be doable, but it is a good idea to discuss it as well.
blah blah blah SENCHA blah blah blah!!!

User avatar
Jun 20th, '08, 21:32
Posts: 1289
Joined: May 10th, '08, 19:22
Location: Kentucky

Chip... help!

by kymidwife » Jun 20th, '08, 21:32

OK Chip... or other greenies...

I bought some tea at the local Asian market today. It may be crap... we shall see. I got some genmaicha which I haven't tried yet... some no-name sencha which probably IS crap because it was relatively cheap...

and I got a lovely round box of Maeda-en 2008 New Crop Schincha... the subject of this email.

When I opened it, I thought it had a great fresh fragrance and color. And the leaf feels totally different than anything else I have tried... very ummm... slick... slippery, silky. Is this proper and expected?

So I brewed it, and it was awful... maybe due to the tea, maybe due to the newbie brewing it. I used a thermometer and brewed it at about 160F for 2.5 minutes or so. Got a nice buttery fragrance, pretty light green vibrant color... but the taste was very grassy and alittle bitter.

So, I did a 2nd infusion... got the temp down to 150F for about 2 minutes... got much more fragrance and a deeper color with this round... flavor was ok, but still a tad bitter.

I got discouraged and moved on to a little tin of matcha I also bought. I made a small tasting of it, 150F, and it tasted like pure poison.

So now I am more discouraged. I have some genmaicha in there now... and I'm alittle scared to even try it. I don't know if I have bad tea or if I'm just screwing it up.

On a brighter note, I drank an entire pot of green tea at the sushi restaurant today, UNSWEETENED... a big step for me!

I'm drinking the shincha now, iced with alittle sweetener, which wiped out the bitterness... but I know that probably makes you purists cringe.

Maybe green is just not my color...

Sarah
***This organic blend is earthy & spicy, with a fragrant aroma & smooth flavor to captivate the senses. Naturally sweetened in the Kentucky sunshine & infused with natural energy. Equally delicious when served piping hot or crisply chilled.***

User avatar
Jun 20th, '08, 21:41
Posts: 1136
Joined: Dec 2nd, '07, 17:53
Location: New York

by joelbct » Jun 20th, '08, 21:41

Chip wrote:
joelbct wrote: And no Chip I haven't forgotten your Shincha Shipment either, just been swamped at work (and hooked on Final Fantasy XII), but I should get to the Fedex Drop Box this weekend ;)
-Joel
Thanx for mentioning this...saves me a panic PM wondering if it got lost.
I will email you the tracking number once it ships. I'm actually stopping by Ito En tomorrow so I'll pick up a fresh cannister or 2 of their Shizuoka Shincha if they aren't sold out yet.

BTW, whence did you find those cool little black sample pouches?

User avatar
Jun 20th, '08, 21:47
Posts: 3348
Joined: Feb 8th, '08, 02:10
Location: France

Re: Chip... help!

by olivierco » Jun 20th, '08, 21:47

kymidwife wrote:OK Chip... or other greenies...

I bought some tea at the local Asian market today. It may be crap... we shall see. I got some genmaicha which I haven't tried yet... some no-name sencha which probably IS crap because it was relatively cheap...

and I got a lovely round box of Maeda-en 2008 New Crop Schincha... the subject of this email.

When I opened it, I thought it had a great fresh fragrance and color. And the leaf feels totally different than anything else I have tried... very ummm... slick... slippery, silky. Is this proper and expected?

So I brewed it, and it was awful... maybe due to the tea, maybe due to the newbie brewing it. I used a thermometer and brewed it at about 160F for 2.5 minutes or so. Got a nice buttery fragrance, pretty light green vibrant color... but the taste was very grassy and alittle bitter.

So, I did a 2nd infusion... got the temp down to 150F for about 2 minutes... got much more fragrance and a deeper color with this round... flavor was ok, but still a tad bitter.

I got discouraged and moved on to a little tin of matcha I also bought. I made a small tasting of it, 150F, and it tasted like pure poison.

So now I am more discouraged. I have some genmaicha in there now... and I'm alittle scared to even try it. I don't know if I have bad tea or if I'm just screwing it up.

On a brighter note, I drank an entire pot of green tea at the sushi restaurant today, UNSWEETENED... a big step for me!

I'm drinking the shincha now, iced with alittle sweetener, which wiped out the bitterness... but I know that probably makes you purists cringe.

Maybe green is just not my color...

Sarah
If it is bitter, you should shorten the steeping times.
150s for first steep seems to be quite too long, especially with shincha. 45s to 90s should be better, depending on the shincha.

The second infusion should be shorter than the first one.

User avatar
Jun 20th, '08, 23:56
Posts: 281
Joined: May 30th, '08, 00:23
Location: indianapolis

by Smells_Familiar » Jun 20th, '08, 23:56

Sarah, try something like ~ 3.5 - 4 grams per 6 oz water, 165*F, and start your pour at 75 seconds for the first brew of the sencha. For the second keep everything the same if your first tasted good, but start the pour at 20 seconds. I know that all senchas and people have their differences, so play with it. These are the parameters I use when brewing a new sencha for the first time.
Good luck and don't give up!

User avatar
Jun 21st, '08, 14:02
Posts: 995
Joined: Feb 8th, '08, 14:22
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Contact: auggy

by auggy » Jun 21st, '08, 14:02

Sarah,
I agree w/ Olivierco about trying the shorter steep times. I'm really picky about bitteness in my greens. Most of mine I start out with something like 60 - 90 seconds for the first steep and then about 5 to 15s for the second, then gradually increasing from there. 160 is a good temp, I think, but I do have some more astringent teas that I enjoy most when brewed at 150...

Tell us what happens!

User avatar
Jun 21st, '08, 14:08
Posts: 763
Joined: Jun 7th, '08, 11:47

Re: Chip... help!

by britt » Jun 21st, '08, 14:08

I think the first problem is that it is very difficult to get good tea in the Asian markets I've been to. This pretty much forces you to go online.

Genmaicha is probably the best tea I've found in local markets. Meaden's Gold Genmaicha is quite good for the price and is not particularly sensitive to brewing parameters.

The best Asian market sencha I tried was by Yamamoto. I don't remember which one it was, but I think it was $5 for 100 grams. It held me until my O-Cha order came in, then I disposed of it.

It sounds like you're using the brewing times that are more typical for Chinese teas than Japanese, which typically require far less. You might want to think about Taiwanese greens from Hou De, such as Bi Lu and Bi Lo Chun. These are very mild even when using a lot of leaf and get good results from a gaiwan or even a thin porcelain cup.

If you bought the matcha at the Asian market, there is a high probability it is cooking or food grade matcha which is not intended for drinking. You can drink it and it is safe to drink, but it is a low grade meant for baking. There is a world of difference between the best Asian market matcha I have tried and O-Cha's cheapest, Kira No Mori. O-Cha's is in a different league and was meant to drink.

If the genmaicha is from Maeden or Yamamoto, go ahead and try it! It will probably be okay.

User avatar
Jun 21st, '08, 14:11
Posts: 2625
Joined: May 31st, '08, 02:44
Scrolling: scrolling
Location: Portland, OR
Contact: Geekgirl

by Geekgirl » Jun 21st, '08, 14:11

I tried the Maeda-en Genmaicha the other evening, and thought it was very good. I also went for a couple of very short steeps, which improved things immensely.

User avatar
Jun 21st, '08, 14:32
Posts: 20891
Joined: Apr 22nd, '06, 20:52
Scrolling: scrolling
Location: Back in the TeaCave atop Mt. Fuji
Been thanked: 2 times

by Chip » Jun 21st, '08, 14:32

SENCHA...notes from a mad man.

The first and most important aspect of authentic Japanese sencha is its quality and then source.

Quality entails many things. If I a sencha is crap in a bag, it matters little what you do to it...it will taste like good or bad crap.

Freshness is a quality issue as well. Freshness is something that is lost in most Asain stores when it comes to sencha. Sencha when unopened is best stored at around 35*. Most of the premier online vendors cold store their sencha and do everything in their power to deliver a fresh product in the hands of the educated consumer.

BTW, there is Chinese sencha floating around that is NOT good. Read labels. But even labels can be misleading since a sencha labeled and sold from a particular prefecture by Japanese law must only contain at least 50% leaf from that prefecture, thus the other 50% could be from anywhere. AGAIN>>>buy from a reputable source. No guarantees with store bought.

Brewing quality sencha...as you are learning a scale is helpful, but I styill like to use one because I believe it delivers the best and most consistent tasting sencha.

How much. 4-5 grams per 200 ml is a good starting point. Some I go higher after tasting. I raely go less than 4 grams though.

Time. 60-120 seconds for the first steep. I generally start pouring at 75 seconds and finish at 90 for the fist steep. 2nd steep around 20-30 seconds, including the pour. 3rd, 40-60 seconds including the pour. If you so choose to go beyond 3...which is always a little controversial...4th around 2-3 min and 5th at least 10 min.

Temp. This is tougher since for me it depends on where is the tea from...it prefecture of origin. But as a rule, in a PREHEATED POT, 160-170* for the first steep. 2nd, 174-176*. 3rd 180*. 4th...190ish. 5th...boiling water.

Easy, right? :shock:
Last edited by Chip on Jun 21st, '08, 14:49, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Jun 21st, '08, 14:42
Posts: 1136
Joined: Dec 2nd, '07, 17:53
Location: New York

by joelbct » Jun 21st, '08, 14:42

I agree on most of your points, but...
Chip wrote:60-120 minutes for the first steep.
...some might call this a bit extreme, particularly when combined with 150 grams at a clip... Image



Image

User avatar
Jun 21st, '08, 14:50
Posts: 20891
Joined: Apr 22nd, '06, 20:52
Scrolling: scrolling
Location: Back in the TeaCave atop Mt. Fuji
Been thanked: 2 times

by Chip » Jun 21st, '08, 14:50

joelbct wrote:I agree on most of your points, but...
Chip wrote:60-120 minutes for the first steep.
...some might call this a bit extreme... Image




Image
Good to know you are always checking up on me, Joel! :wink: Well, at least I know one person is reading my posts. :lol:
blah blah blah SENCHA blah blah blah!!!

User avatar
Jun 21st, '08, 16:51
Posts: 1289
Joined: May 10th, '08, 19:22
Location: Kentucky

by kymidwife » Jun 21st, '08, 16:51

OK, so... I decided to try again with the shincha before I open up the genmaicha.

I did a 1st steep 5gm in ~200cc... 160 degrees... started pouring at 75 seconds, it was all in the cup by 90 seconds...

I will say, it was better than yesterday, but still quite bitter. What was better was the overall flavor...a rich, almost salty brothy undertone, I guess that's the umami. I drank about half of it, but it was still just too bitter... so I did a 2nd infusion.

Since it was bitter at 160, I dropped down to 155 on the second, and kept it to only about 15 seconds... now, this means I started pouring at 15 seconds, so it might have been pushing 25 or so by the time it was all in the cup. 2nd infusion is much more drinkable, still a tiny bit bitter, still lots of brothy richness.

Neither infusion has been very sweet. It does have a great opaque bright green color, and a buttery vegetal aroma.

Maybe its just crappy tea. I will continue to experiment... I am determined to get it totally right at some point. Thanks so much for all the advice.

Sarah

User avatar
Jun 21st, '08, 17:04
Posts: 20891
Joined: Apr 22nd, '06, 20:52
Scrolling: scrolling
Location: Back in the TeaCave atop Mt. Fuji
Been thanked: 2 times

by Chip » Jun 21st, '08, 17:04

Even if it is crappy sencha, it is good to experiment with...to learn off of.

But even a venerable shincha like Hatsumi took me 5 attempts to get it right this year. Other shincha I got it right on the first try.

Typically, the second steep is done at a higher temp than the first. No rule about it though.

Also, do not be a fraid to shorten the first steep or lower the temp of the first steep a little more.

When I was at the Expo, Den, the owner of Den's brewed shincha Fukamushi Maki that was sooo astringent it made my mouth pucker...the way he seems to like it. Most of us like this fukamushi sweet and mellower. It is really amazing how a sencha's flavor profile can be altered so drastically to accommodate personal taste.

User avatar
Jun 21st, '08, 17:59
Posts: 479
Joined: Feb 10th, '08, 23:28

by RussianSoul » Jun 21st, '08, 17:59

Sarah,

Consider brewing it less strong. I usually start a new sencha with

1g per 2oz (~60ml), 170°F, 1min.

So it will be (say) 3g per 6oz (~180ml).

This is a leaf/water ratio that is a lot lower than what you tried and nearly always gets it just right for me - sweet and vegetal and round. I may adjust temp and/or time later, but only a little. The 1g per 2oz ratio has not let me down. It may seem weak to our macho green heads here, but it works for me, and you can always up it by a little (a keyword here) later.

+ Post Reply