Aug 23rd, '08, 20:37
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Wow, that is one complicated question. Do you have a lifetime to discuss? It is not really possible to answer this with a simple rule of thumb yes or no.
This depends on so many factors and varies considerably from tea to tea. In many Chinese first flush greens, smaller yet whole leaves are considered higher quality, but are they better tasting?
For a Xi Hu Long Jing for instance, the earliest highest priced pickings consisting of the smallest whole leaves are not necessarily the best tasting. They are first to market and are typically very light tasting compared to leaf that is slightly larger that was picked a little later. My one friend in China who is in the tea industry prefers the latter, and the price is much better. But, picked later still, and the quality and flavor falls off.
Japanese steamed greens are virtually never even seen as a full leaf. They even trim the leaves, the highest quality are the tips, the heals are lower quality. Size loses meaning completely. But a fine needle hand picked light steamed will command a higher price and is larger leaf than a machine picked version generally. Still, the best and highest quality deep steamed one will be tiny particles.
Since this is a green tea topic, I will not even mention the relatively huge size of premium grades of oolong ... well, just did.
This depends on so many factors and varies considerably from tea to tea. In many Chinese first flush greens, smaller yet whole leaves are considered higher quality, but are they better tasting?
For a Xi Hu Long Jing for instance, the earliest highest priced pickings consisting of the smallest whole leaves are not necessarily the best tasting. They are first to market and are typically very light tasting compared to leaf that is slightly larger that was picked a little later. My one friend in China who is in the tea industry prefers the latter, and the price is much better. But, picked later still, and the quality and flavor falls off.
Japanese steamed greens are virtually never even seen as a full leaf. They even trim the leaves, the highest quality are the tips, the heals are lower quality. Size loses meaning completely. But a fine needle hand picked light steamed will command a higher price and is larger leaf than a machine picked version generally. Still, the best and highest quality deep steamed one will be tiny particles.
Since this is a green tea topic, I will not even mention the relatively huge size of premium grades of oolong ... well, just did.
Aug 23rd, '08, 21:33
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Yeah, this topic blew me away a bit. I honestly do not know if this was EVER a topic here on its own.
There are different types of greens, and then there are grades within those types. For instance, Tai Ping Hou Kui. Very large leaves. Then a premium grade of TPHK, Cha Wang has even larger leaves. This seems to go against the norm though.
Most higher grades of Long Jing seem to have smaller leaves that are part of perfectly formed leaf sets.
But there are so many other factors. And the smaller size of the higher grades of Long Jing is more of a reflection of when the leaf is harvested (earlier than larger leaf grades).
There are different types of greens, and then there are grades within those types. For instance, Tai Ping Hou Kui. Very large leaves. Then a premium grade of TPHK, Cha Wang has even larger leaves. This seems to go against the norm though.
Most higher grades of Long Jing seem to have smaller leaves that are part of perfectly formed leaf sets.
But there are so many other factors. And the smaller size of the higher grades of Long Jing is more of a reflection of when the leaf is harvested (earlier than larger leaf grades).
blah blah blah SENCHA blah blah blah!!!
Chip wrote:Wow, that is one complicated question. Do you have a lifetime to discuss? It is not really possible to answer this with a simple rule of thumb yes or no.
It's a good question though! Is bigger better? In a word, 'no...' or perhaps more accurately, 'sometimes...'
You could have lousy Tea with big leaf, and awesome Tea with small leaf. And you could have lousy Tea with small leaf, and awesome Tea with big leaf. Also, some C. sinensis varietals just have larger leaf size, like the big leaf Yunnan, and hybrids heavy w/ var. assamica.
Broadly, with respect to Chinese and Indian Tea, when the whole leaf is kept intact during the processing, this often correlates with higher quality. But it's more a correlation than a causation. Yes, leaf Tea is better than Tea Dust commercial Tea Bags... but you can't even say 'tea powder is bad,' because then you have Matcha!
And like Chip said, Japanese leaf tea is usdually 'shredded.' I remember when I first bought good Sencha, I assumed it must be a low grade since the leaf was small, but of course I was oh-so wrong.
[edited for absolutes
]
Last edited by joelbct on Aug 24th, '08, 13:13, edited 1 time in total.
Not always.joelbct wrote: And like Chip said, Japanese leaf tea is always 'shredded.'
Sorry, a bit of a pet peeve of mine in dealing with absolutes.
For the most part though it's right.
Aug 24th, '08, 00:32
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Stems are simply sorted out. Veins, I have yet to uncover the mystical process of removing those.Salsero wrote:How do they get the stems and bigger veins and stuff out of the Japanese tea? Even the premo stuff that we crave is harvested by those enormous bush-mowing machines, right? In my puerh and my TKY I find plenty of stems, but in my sencha hardly any.
Aug 24th, '08, 01:33
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They sometimes put the leaf in this giant vertical air blowing dryer machine thingy. 
The stems/veins drop down and the leaf floats up as I recall. Oversimplified, but this is one method of sorting.
That is an interesting link, Pentox. We are told that the leaf is cut in steamed green tea from Japan. The tip goes to the good stuff, the heal to the lesser grades. Thus, if that is true, then a whole larger leaf could be "higher quality" yet less tasty. I would love to try that whole leaf Japanese tea nevertheless and judge for myself.
The stems/veins drop down and the leaf floats up as I recall. Oversimplified, but this is one method of sorting. That is an interesting link, Pentox. We are told that the leaf is cut in steamed green tea from Japan. The tip goes to the good stuff, the heal to the lesser grades. Thus, if that is true, then a whole larger leaf could be "higher quality" yet less tasty. I would love to try that whole leaf Japanese tea nevertheless and judge for myself.
blah blah blah SENCHA blah blah blah!!!
That tea was a bit unique, it's all hand processed so the leaf is hand picked. I think it's whole to get longer needles.Chip wrote:They sometimes put the leaf in this giant vertical air blowing dryer machine thingy.
That is an interesting link, Pentox. We are told that the leaf is cut in steamed green tea from Japan. The tip goes to the good stuff, the heal to the lesser grades. Thus, if that is true, then a whole larger leaf could be "higher quality" yet less tasty. I would love to try that whole leaf Japanese tea nevertheless and judge for myself.
I thought the blow drier thing was for tencha/matcha. That was one of the main processing differences where the leaves are air tossed like that to get air dried.
Aug 24th, '08, 01:41
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Yeah, I want to see the price tag on one of those matcha grinding mills.Chip wrote:You could be right about the machine, Pentox. Like I said, this is one method. The machinery in use in some of these processing "factories" must cost a fortune.
Yeah, those neeedles must require a huge amount of added labour. Must cost a fortune...
I heard the temomi is incredibly labor intensive, and the price tag matches. well over the $1/g border.
I hadn't heard of that stuff, learn something every day! Where can one buy this temomi? would be interesting to try a whole-leaf Japanese Tea. I hadn't heard of sugimoto before. I see their website, but no temomi. Also, I wonder if the price is justified just as a hand-made novelty, or whether the taste of the liquor is that noticeably different?Chip wrote:I heard the temomi is incredibly labor intensive, and the price tag matches. well over the $1/g border.
BTW I love this quote from the Sugimoto website:
"Green tea of this caliber adds to the daily experience of a quality lifestyle, much like a fine wine does..."
Right on!
Temomi isn't yet avail for sale to the general public. Kyohei sent me a sample and some information about it. Amazing stuff. You brew it more like a gyokuro, but actually cooler and it packs one hell of a punch. They hope to make it avail next year.joelbct wrote: I hadn't heard of that stuff, learn something every day! Where can one buy this temomi? would be interesting to try a whole-leaf Japanese Tea. I hadn't heard of sugimoto before. I see their website, but no temomi. Also, I wonder if the price is justified just as a hand-made novelty, or whether the taste of the liquor is that noticeably different?
BTW I love this quote from the Sugimoto website:
"Green tea of this caliber adds to the daily experience of a quality lifestyle, much like a fine wine does..."
Right on!