Vegetal? How about grassy!

[Tea Noob]

I have tried about 10 green samples from Adagio and there are only a few I do not like. In fact, the only teas from Adagio I don't like are Dragonwell, and Sencha Overture and maybe one other. What do those have in common? They taste like some spinach peed in my cup. Is this what people refer to when I see the word vegetal?

This is the definition I got when googling the word:

(freedictionary.com) Vegetal - Of, relating to, or characteristic of plants.

I don't want to reinvent the wheel here but using the descriptive word 'vegetal' isn't nearly specific enough with regards to that green taste. Sounds very vague especially when it is used with so many more specific characteristics. I think the word that best describes what my tastes buds are thinking would be 'grassy'. That is much more specific. To narrow it down further I can go with freshly cut grass. There isn't any confusion with what I am trying to say with those words. Sorry about the rant, I don't want to step on toes here but lets be honest, saying something has plant characteristics doesn't really say much. That felt good to get off my chest.

With that being said, I would like to know if this characteristic is typical of a sencha, regardless of quality. If so, is this a standard taste of Japanese Greens? I am 0 for 2 on the Japanese Greens with Adagio if we include the Genmai Cha. I know many love it and have told me that their sample is not a great representation of that type of tea.

Knowing that grassy isn't my style, what should I avoid and what should I try? If my Adagio samples are not a great representation of the spectrum, what is a good online retailer to get some affordable samples from and what should I try?

I just received a Black Tea order and I have 2 Oolong Sample orders on the way so I am not in a huge rush to dive into pool of Green Tea. However, there is nothing wrong with more samples!

[Space Samurai]

Just a reminder, don't be afraid to retry teas you don't like at a later date. It took me over a year for my palate to adjust to tea. Green tea in particular, and now I favor Japanese tea, the grassier the better. And it can also take time for our brewing skills to develop as well. Some green teas are very tricky to get right.

[Tea Noob]

Just a reminder, don't be afraid to retry teas you don't like at a later date. It took me over a year for my palate to adjust to tea. Green tea in particular, and now I favor Japanese tea, the grassier the better. And it can also take time for our brewing skills to develop as well. Some green teas are very tricky to get right.

I get where you are coming from with regards to the palate. So all Japanese greens are grassy? I guess I better stay away.

[Shelob]

Just a reminder, don't be afraid to retry teas you don't like at a later date. It took me over a year for my palate to adjust to tea. Green tea in particular, and now I favor Japanese tea, the grassier the better. And it can also take time for our brewing skills to develop as well. Some green teas are very tricky to get right.

+ 1 Space, which is your favorite?

Tea Noob, As Space said, it takes time for brewing skills to develop, don't give up, I don't necessarily find all Japanese greens 'grassy'!

[Chip]

I would also describe Japanese greens as vibrant and alive and refreshing. However, if brewed improperly, even the best sencha can be a bitter, veggie disaster. Sencha is certainly not the easiest brewer either.

Or the sencha is inferior or second flush, do not expect miracles. Sourcing frustrated me for years, but it is a new dawn for Japanese tea enjoyment world wide, a trend I expect to continue as Japanese tastes westernize, and our tastes easternize, Japan must continue to open new markets for surplus crops.

[edkrueger]

Sencha and Kukicha are grassy. Gyokuro is not as grassy and more vegetable with marine and seaweed notes. Chinese greens, especially buds and small leaves, are mostly vegetable with some sweetness and a nutty taste. Greener high mountain Oolongs might also be a good place to go next.

[Salsero]

Sencha and Kukicha are grassy. Gyokuro is not as grassy and more vegetable with marine and seaweed notes. Chinese greens, especially buds and small leaves, are mostly vegetable with some sweetness and a nutty taste. Greener high mountain Oolongs might also be a good place to go next.

Yes, I have always thought of grassy and vegetal as very different tastes.

[Space Samurai]

+ 1 Space, which is your favorite?

I really like Den's fukamushi maki. Most people here seem to prefer Ocha for fuka, but their fuka supreme didn't do it for me.

[Tea Noob]

Sencha and Kukicha are grassy. Gyokuro is not as grassy and more vegetable with marine and seaweed notes. Chinese greens, especially buds and small leaves, are mostly vegetable with some sweetness and a nutty taste. Greener high mountain Oolongs might also be a good place to go next.

Yes, I have always thought of grassy and vegetal as very different tastes.

I would like to know how you differentiate between the two words. what is another word you would use for vegetal? If I am misinterpreting the meaning of the word, that is a good thing. Because once I see vegetal now, I run for the hills. Due to the vagueness of the definition, it really doesn't provide any information, for me, to use the word vegetal. Hell, this forum doesn't even recognize it as a word!

Ed, I like where you head is at with regards to oolongs. I do enjoy the TKY I got from Adagio. Like I mentioned at the top, I placed 2 orders for some oolongs and I think I picked some that are greener and some that are darker.

Apparently the advise is to.... avoid Japanese greens like the plague?

[scruffmcgruff]

Apparently the advise is to.... avoid Japanese greens like the plague?

Forgive me for joining in this thread late, if I repeat/ignore anyone, that's why.

I don't really like grassy or vegetal, but there are a lot of Japanese greens that are neither (based on my interpretation of the terms anyway) if brewed correctly. I'd try something like O-Cha's Yukata Midori; brew it with slightly cooler water (start at 160F, move up to taste) and for less time than normal (depending on the amount of leaf you use). Tastes like candy to me, without any unpleasant grassy or vegetal flavor.

[Chip]

Vegetal can also mean many things. I have tasted veggie that was like broccoli or artichoke or asparagus or spinach or etc ... or combinations of veggies. I have noticed this more in Chinese greens, but also some Japanese light steamed (asamushi), and less so in more deeply steamed Japanese greens. Seems the steaming mellows the veggie character, IMHO. But there are always exceptions, and they are frequent and many.

Grassy is a character I have a terrible time wrapping my taste buds around, but it is certainly common in Japanese greens.

As Scruff points out, some greens defy characterizing them with either term. Yutaka Midori is a good example, it really is a unique flavor.

[Space Samurai]

This is bound to be confusing as we are all trying to describe a flavor that we just aren't trained for. When I use the words grassy and vegetal, I am usually trying to describe a bold greenness that a tea posseses.

[kymidwife]

OK, I am about as far from a green tea expert as someone can get... I've ruined my fair share of sencha early on in my explorations of greens, and I have finally conquered the beast and manage very good infusions pretty much every time. I have my own version of the answer to your question about differentiating vegetal from grassy... so I hope it will help, although someone else's definition may vary.

To me, "grassy" is a very green, sharp, slightly bitter taste with an aroma of fresh lawnmowing... and not much depth.

Vegetal, on the other hand, is a more savory, brothy, complex taste with a more viscous mouthfeel and a hint of steamed green veggies (like fresh or roasted seaweed, broccoli or green beans or sometimes spinach). I never think "grassy" and "vegetal" are remotely similar because I've never eaten a vegetable that tasted like grass... and I don't find the grassy aroma/taste to be savory at all. I guess that's the umami factor.

Most Chinese greens seem bland to me after my palate learned to appreciate Japanese greens. It's just all what you like. But, I will say... if you search back to this past summer, you will find my thread of frustration as I tried to learn to brew them correctly. I thought I just didn't like green tea. My skills and palate have developed to truly enjoy them very much.

Hope this helps.

Sarah

[Salsero]

Exactly my sentiments, kymidwife, though I could never have expressed it so well. I like both tastes and yet, as Scruff, Chip, and Space say, neither term exactly describes any sencha and many times sencha doesn't taste particularly like either!

[Tea Noob]

These answers are getting very good. The difficult thing is not just pinning down what the words mean, but what the people using them are trying to convey. It is still very confusing to see some use grassy and vegetal interchangeably while other use them in very different contexts. With such a varying opinion on such a vague word I can't help but wonder why it is used to often on this forum.


Sarah, you did a great job explaining what those words mean to you, which makes it much easier for me to understand what you are trying to say.

. I never think "grassy" and "vegetal" are remotely similar because I've never eaten a vegetable that tasted like grass...

You admit to eating grass? If so, I think it would count as a vegetable.