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Dec 26th, '17, 05:24
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Droolong.com : Beautiful Taiwan Tea Company

by jayinhk » Dec 26th, '17, 05:24

https://droolong.com/2017/12/26/reddit- ... a-company/

This vendor sells fake pu erh and uses numerous shill accounts across the web. At the time of writing, it appears my post on Reddit was flagged. It's still visible to me on there, but it doesn't appear in r/tea's 'new' posts.

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Jan 3rd, '18, 08:08
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Re: Droolong.com : Beautiful Taiwan Tea Company

by John Sung » Jan 3rd, '18, 08:08

jayinhk wrote: https://droolong.com/2017/12/26/reddit- ... a-company/

This vendor sells fake pu erh and uses numerous shill accounts across the web. At the time of writing, it appears my post on Reddit was flagged. It's still visible to me on there, but it doesn't appear in r/tea's 'new' posts.
How do you tell if the puer is fake or not?

Jan 3rd, '18, 18:59
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Re: Droolong.com : Beautiful Taiwan Tea Company

by quenel » Jan 3rd, '18, 18:59

John Sung wrote:
jayinhk wrote: https://droolong.com/2017/12/26/reddit- ... a-company/

This vendor sells fake pu erh and uses numerous shill accounts across the web. At the time of writing, it appears my post on Reddit was flagged. It's still visible to me on there, but it doesn't appear in r/tea's 'new' posts.
How do you tell if the puer is fake or not?
I guess he is talking about inferior or to fake an inferior as premium.

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Jan 3rd, '18, 23:47
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Re: Droolong.com : Beautiful Taiwan Tea Company

by jayinhk » Jan 3rd, '18, 23:47

John Sung wrote:
jayinhk wrote: https://droolong.com/2017/12/26/reddit- ... a-company/

This vendor sells fake pu erh and uses numerous shill accounts across the web. At the time of writing, it appears my post on Reddit was flagged. It's still visible to me on there, but it doesn't appear in r/tea's 'new' posts.
How do you tell if the puer is fake or not?
Well in this case, many of the pu erh cakes on offer are priced far too low to be authentic. I told a large volume pu erh vendor about the situation and mentioned BTTC were selling 90s shou for $20. The response I got was 'lol.'

Odd taste, leaves that don't go for enough infusions and poorly faked wrappers are other indicators of fake cakes.

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Jan 4th, '18, 07:33
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Re: Droolong.com : Beautiful Taiwan Tea Company

by John Sung » Jan 4th, '18, 07:33

jayinhk wrote:
John Sung wrote:
jayinhk wrote: https://droolong.com/2017/12/26/reddit- ... a-company/

This vendor sells fake pu erh and uses numerous shill accounts across the web. At the time of writing, it appears my post on Reddit was flagged. It's still visible to me on there, but it doesn't appear in r/tea's 'new' posts.
How do you tell if the puer is fake or not?
Well in this case, many of the pu erh cakes on offer are priced far too low to be authentic. I told a large volume pu erh vendor about the situation and mentioned BTTC were selling 90s shou for $20. The response I got was 'lol.'

Odd taste, leaves that don't go for enough infusions and poorly faked wrappers are other indicators of fake cakes.
Hey Jay,

Thanks for the great tips.

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Re: Droolong.com : Beautiful Taiwan Tea Company

by teaformeplease » Jan 5th, '18, 22:09

I definitely understand the concern but I think you are seeing a bit of a backlash because you are vendor yourself. Many in the community consider it bad form to throw accusations at your competition (whether founded or not). That being said, /r/tea can also be a VERY grumpy place. They like who they like and that's all they like.

Edit: After reading through the Steepster thread, your behavior there was deplorable. Every single person who disagreed with you was accused of being a shill account. There's something to be said for letting your products stand for themselves rather than dragging your competition through the mud. In that thread you compared this situation to the way the American economy works, i.e. Coke vs Pepsi. The thing is we all also have laws concerning libel. You can't just say negative things about your competition because you feel like it.

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Re: Droolong.com : Beautiful Taiwan Tea Company

by Zared » Jan 6th, '18, 12:31

teaformeplease wrote: I definitely understand the concern but I think you are seeing a bit of a backlash because you are vendor yourself. Many in the community consider it bad form to throw accusations at your competition (whether founded or not). That being said, /r/tea can also be a VERY grumpy place. They like who they like and that's all they like.

Edit: After reading through the Steepster thread, your behavior there was deplorable. Every single person who disagreed with you was accused of being a shill account. There's something to be said for letting your products stand for themselves rather than dragging your competition through the mud. In that thread you compared this situation to the way the American economy works, i.e. Coke vs Pepsi. The thing is we all also have laws concerning libel. You can't just say negative things about your competition because you feel like it.
+1

@Jay, I'm all for calling out vendors that are clearly selling fakes but threads like this shouldn't be started by another vendor.

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Jan 9th, '18, 10:11
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Re: Droolong.com : Beautiful Taiwan Tea Company

by jayinhk » Jan 9th, '18, 10:11

teaformeplease wrote: I definitely understand the concern but I think you are seeing a bit of a backlash because you are vendor yourself. Many in the community consider it bad form to throw accusations at your competition (whether founded or not). That being said, /r/tea can also be a VERY grumpy place. They like who they like and that's all they like.

Edit: After reading through the Steepster thread, your behavior there was deplorable. Every single person who disagreed with you was accused of being a shill account. There's something to be said for letting your products stand for themselves rather than dragging your competition through the mud. In that thread you compared this situation to the way the American economy works, i.e. Coke vs Pepsi. The thing is we all also have laws concerning libel. You can't just say negative things about your competition because you feel like it.
Hi,

I actually feel I had every right to say what I did, and libel laws only count when a false statement was made. What I said was the truth. I think this may be a cultural issue as I see nothing wrong with what I did at all.

If you check out those posters' accounts, I had good reason to believe they were fake BTTC accounts. I bet if you checked those Steepster and Reddit accounts now, you wouldn't find any other posts after the event.

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Re: Droolong.com : Beautiful Taiwan Tea Company

by ethan » Jan 9th, '18, 14:35

Having spent 5 days staying in a hostel w/ Jay & enjoying greater Taipei, as well as knowing how he acts as a member of forums; I feel safe in saying, the purpose of his post is to stop some of the b.s. from tea vendors, as a fellow tea-lover sharing knowledge. There is so much competition that dumping on a particular one, would not effect his business significantly, if at all.
From experience on Teachat, I can say anytime anyone ?s or criticizes, he opens himself to attacks. The few very respected members or vendors here can get away with being an asshole (I know of 2); &, many terrible vendors are praised by people who know no better yet might dislike being alerted to that situation.
Off topic, even more ridiculous to me, is that people jump into the world of pu-erh before getting much mastery of other teas. (I am guilty of a short journey early-on; so, I criticize myself here also). The difficult, atrociously expensive world of pu-erh reminds me of people buying $2000 exercise equipment for their homes before they have ever stuck to any kind of regiment of regular exercise.
Cheers

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Re: Droolong.com : Beautiful Taiwan Tea Company

by jayinhk » Jan 9th, '18, 20:25

ethan wrote: Having spent 5 days staying in a hostel w/ Jay & enjoying greater Taipei, as well as knowing how he acts as a member of forums; I feel safe in saying, the purpose of his post is to stop some of the b.s. from tea vendors, as a fellow tea-lover sharing knowledge. There is so much competition that dumping on a particular one, would not effect his business significantly, if at all.
From experience on Teachat, I can say anytime anyone ?s or criticizes, he opens himself to attacks. The few very respected members or vendors here can get away with being an asshole (I know of 2); &, many terrible vendors are praised by people who know no better yet might dislike being alerted to that situation.
Off topic, even more ridiculous to me, is that people jump into the world of pu-erh before getting much mastery of other teas. (I am guilty of a short journey early-on; so, I criticize myself here also). The difficult, atrociously expensive world of pu-erh reminds me of people buying $2000 exercise equipment for their homes before they have ever stuck to any kind of regiment of regular exercise.
Cheers
You make a good point there ethan. What does going after one vendor selling fake pu do for me? It certainly hasn't brought me any business and has alienated some people who think what I did was wrong. Others agree with what I did. Hopefully it'll keep some people from drinking potentially dangerous fake pu erh!

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Re: Droolong.com : Beautiful Taiwan Tea Company

by Zared » Jan 9th, '18, 22:23

jayinhk wrote:
ethan wrote: Having spent 5 days staying in a hostel w/ Jay & enjoying greater Taipei, as well as knowing how he acts as a member of forums; I feel safe in saying, the purpose of his post is to stop some of the b.s. from tea vendors, as a fellow tea-lover sharing knowledge. There is so much competition that dumping on a particular one, would not effect his business significantly, if at all.
From experience on Teachat, I can say anytime anyone ?s or criticizes, he opens himself to attacks. The few very respected members or vendors here can get away with being an asshole (I know of 2); &, many terrible vendors are praised by people who know no better yet might dislike being alerted to that situation.
Off topic, even more ridiculous to me, is that people jump into the world of pu-erh before getting much mastery of other teas. (I am guilty of a short journey early-on; so, I criticize myself here also). The difficult, atrociously expensive world of pu-erh reminds me of people buying $2000 exercise equipment for their homes before they have ever stuck to any kind of regiment of regular exercise.
Cheers
You make a good point there ethan. What does going after one vendor selling fake pu do for me? It certainly hasn't brought me any business and has alienated some people who think what I did was wrong. Others agree with what I did. Hopefully it'll keep some people from drinking potentially dangerous fake pu erh!
I don't think you were motivated by money but that doesn't change the optics. The responsibility to call out BTTC should be left to non-vendors imho.

Maybe a better approach to the issue of fake tea would be for you to sell an educational sample set of humid semi-aged and real aged tea to compare. It'll probably help people spot the difference next time they sample a 5-10yr humid tea being sold as 80-90's.

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Re: Droolong.com : Beautiful Taiwan Tea Company

by jayinhk » Jan 10th, '18, 00:31

Zared wrote:
jayinhk wrote:
ethan wrote: Having spent 5 days staying in a hostel w/ Jay & enjoying greater Taipei, as well as knowing how he acts as a member of forums; I feel safe in saying, the purpose of his post is to stop some of the b.s. from tea vendors, as a fellow tea-lover sharing knowledge. There is so much competition that dumping on a particular one, would not effect his business significantly, if at all.
From experience on Teachat, I can say anytime anyone ?s or criticizes, he opens himself to attacks. The few very respected members or vendors here can get away with being an asshole (I know of 2); &, many terrible vendors are praised by people who know no better yet might dislike being alerted to that situation.
Off topic, even more ridiculous to me, is that people jump into the world of pu-erh before getting much mastery of other teas. (I am guilty of a short journey early-on; so, I criticize myself here also). The difficult, atrociously expensive world of pu-erh reminds me of people buying $2000 exercise equipment for their homes before they have ever stuck to any kind of regiment of regular exercise.
Cheers
You make a good point there ethan. What does going after one vendor selling fake pu do for me? It certainly hasn't brought me any business and has alienated some people who think what I did was wrong. Others agree with what I did. Hopefully it'll keep some people from drinking potentially dangerous fake pu erh!
I don't think you were motivated by money but that doesn't change the optics. The responsibility to call out BTTC should be left to non-vendors imho.

Maybe a better approach to the issue of fake tea would be for you to sell an educational sample set of humid semi-aged and real aged tea to compare. It'll probably help people spot the difference next time they sample a 5-10yr humid tea being sold as 80-90's.
I appreciate your opinion Zared, but I did what I did and stand by it :) And no, I most certainly won't be selling an educational set that contains tea that might hurt someone! That kind of accelerated aging guarantees hazardous mycotoxins will be present. As for pesticides and heavy metals and the like; total crapshoot when you're dealing with teas that don't even have to meet the most basic Chinese standards! :shock:

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Re: Droolong.com : Beautiful Taiwan Tea Company

by Zared » Jan 10th, '18, 01:43

jayinhk wrote:
Zared wrote:
jayinhk wrote:
ethan wrote: Having spent 5 days staying in a hostel w/ Jay & enjoying greater Taipei, as well as knowing how he acts as a member of forums; I feel safe in saying, the purpose of his post is to stop some of the b.s. from tea vendors, as a fellow tea-lover sharing knowledge. There is so much competition that dumping on a particular one, would not effect his business significantly, if at all.
From experience on Teachat, I can say anytime anyone ?s or criticizes, he opens himself to attacks. The few very respected members or vendors here can get away with being an asshole (I know of 2); &, many terrible vendors are praised by people who know no better yet might dislike being alerted to that situation.
Off topic, even more ridiculous to me, is that people jump into the world of pu-erh before getting much mastery of other teas. (I am guilty of a short journey early-on; so, I criticize myself here also). The difficult, atrociously expensive world of pu-erh reminds me of people buying $2000 exercise equipment for their homes before they have ever stuck to any kind of regiment of regular exercise.
Cheers
You make a good point there ethan. What does going after one vendor selling fake pu do for me? It certainly hasn't brought me any business and has alienated some people who think what I did was wrong. Others agree with what I did. Hopefully it'll keep some people from drinking potentially dangerous fake pu erh!
I don't think you were motivated by money but that doesn't change the optics. The responsibility to call out BTTC should be left to non-vendors imho.

Maybe a better approach to the issue of fake tea would be for you to sell an educational sample set of humid semi-aged and real aged tea to compare. It'll probably help people spot the difference next time they sample a 5-10yr humid tea being sold as 80-90's.
I appreciate your opinion Zared, but I did what I did and stand by it :) And no, I most certainly won't be selling an educational set that contains tea that might hurt someone! That kind of accelerated aging guarantees hazardous mycotoxins will be present. As for pesticides and heavy metals and the like; total crapshoot when you're dealing with teas that don't even have to meet the most basic Chinese standards! :shock:
I didn't suggest selling dangerous tea in any way. I was referring to 5-10yr old teas that have been stored in humid places like HK or Taiwan. Those are the type of teas that people buy thinking it's 20yr old tea. I believe that is what most of BTTC selection consist of other than prob the dank tea that is probably really wet an possibly not safe.

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Re: Droolong.com : Beautiful Taiwan Tea Company

by jayinhk » Jan 10th, '18, 01:53

Zared wrote:
jayinhk wrote:
Zared wrote:
jayinhk wrote:
ethan wrote: Having spent 5 days staying in a hostel w/ Jay & enjoying greater Taipei, as well as knowing how he acts as a member of forums; I feel safe in saying, the purpose of his post is to stop some of the b.s. from tea vendors, as a fellow tea-lover sharing knowledge. There is so much competition that dumping on a particular one, would not effect his business significantly, if at all.
From experience on Teachat, I can say anytime anyone ?s or criticizes, he opens himself to attacks. The few very respected members or vendors here can get away with being an asshole (I know of 2); &, many terrible vendors are praised by people who know no better yet might dislike being alerted to that situation.
Off topic, even more ridiculous to me, is that people jump into the world of pu-erh before getting much mastery of other teas. (I am guilty of a short journey early-on; so, I criticize myself here also). The difficult, atrociously expensive world of pu-erh reminds me of people buying $2000 exercise equipment for their homes before they have ever stuck to any kind of regiment of regular exercise.
Cheers
You make a good point there ethan. What does going after one vendor selling fake pu do for me? It certainly hasn't brought me any business and has alienated some people who think what I did was wrong. Others agree with what I did. Hopefully it'll keep some people from drinking potentially dangerous fake pu erh!
I don't think you were motivated by money but that doesn't change the optics. The responsibility to call out BTTC should be left to non-vendors imho.

Maybe a better approach to the issue of fake tea would be for you to sell an educational sample set of humid semi-aged and real aged tea to compare. It'll probably help people spot the difference next time they sample a 5-10yr humid tea being sold as 80-90's.
I appreciate your opinion Zared, but I did what I did and stand by it :) And no, I most certainly won't be selling an educational set that contains tea that might hurt someone! That kind of accelerated aging guarantees hazardous mycotoxins will be present. As for pesticides and heavy metals and the like; total crapshoot when you're dealing with teas that don't even have to meet the most basic Chinese standards! :shock:
I didn't suggest selling dangerous tea in any way. I was referring to 5-10yr old teas that have been stored in humid places like HK or Taiwan. Those are the type of teas that people buy thinking it's 20yr old tea. I believe that is what most of BTTC selection consist of other than prob the dank tea that is probably really wet an possibly not safe.
Some of the selection on there is the worst kind of 'wet storage.' Sometimes water is actually splashed around the warehouse or literally poured onto pu erh to speed up aging and this is what he's passing off as 'dank.' Basically converting cakes to shou of sorts after the cakes are already pressed, but without the control that comes with shou processing.

The online community already know what HK/Guangdong/TW 5-10 year old tea should taste like for the most part (and I only sell HK and Guangdong aged pu), but many inexperienced buyers aren't aware of this and those are the people who are likely to end up buying the (previously) really moldy stuff. It is possible to accelerate aging even faster than traditional storage with actual water--that is what I define as wet storage and that stuff is horrible!

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Re: Droolong.com : Beautiful Taiwan Tea Company

by Bok » Jan 10th, '18, 02:44

Zared wrote: I don't think you were motivated by money but that doesn't change the optics. The responsibility to call out BTTC should be left to non-vendors imho.
What if no one else notices it? I am all in favour of whoever spots a dodgy shop first to call it out, rather than waiting for someone else (which might never happen)…

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