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by Tead Off » Jun 22nd 09 3:56 am

MarshalN wrote:Heck, why go for an old one when you can find a new one that's unlined?

http://www.artisticnippon.com/product/i ... ettle.html

It didn't take too long to go through all of them.

There are other sources, including those from Japan, but that'll require a little more work.
While you can buy unlined tetsubin for less than $200 new, the 2 differences that usually determine the price are:

Reduction fired: Not all unlined tetsubin are reduction fired.
Number of castings from the mold:The less expensive ones will not be the same quality as either the tetsubin from a single casting or a series of just a handful of castings. The molds degrade with each casting.

To the OP: Personally, I would never buy a tetsubin without handling it in person. You cannot see the details and workmanship from any of the photos that are online. When I went into Hojo's shop, I was stunned at the difference between the high-end and his $300 tetsubin. The $300 ones were not bad, but paled in comparison to these other works of art. If only brewing is important to you, go for the less expensive ones that have been reduced. But, that $1000 burning a hole in your pocket can get you something that is very special.

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by scruffmcgruff » Jun 22nd 09 4:51 am

Tead Off wrote:Personally, I would never buy a tetsubin without handling it in person.
While I appreciate this as an ideal, it just isn't practical for most of us. I'm *pretty* sure Hobbes (from The Half-Dipper) has this kettle though, and I trust his judgment enough to purchase it if I were in the market for a tetsubin. Again, not ideal, as even experienced and well-meaning people can be wrong, but without access to these kettles IRL, I have to make do with less information.

The reduction-firing is an interesting point, one I don't know much about. I'm curious what the benefit of reducing the iron is? I'm not saying there is none, and clearly you know more about this than I do, but without data (or at least theory) to back it up it does sound a bit like the rhetoric used to sell Yixing.

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by Tead Off » Jun 22nd 09 9:18 am

scruff, if you read chingwa's post earlier on he mentions the reduction of iron from fe3 to fe2. This is chemistry not oldwivestales. Required reading is hojotea.com under tetsubin. He explains the issues clearly. I believe Kunzan is one of the artists that Hojo handles and would meet the requirements.

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by clareandromeda » Jun 22nd 09 10:02 am

well I live in New York City and although I have found tetsubins here they are lined on the inside. Seeing one in person seems impossible :( So I should look for this quote on AN
"This kettle has been specially treated by steam baking for 30-40 minutes, an oxidisation process which improves its rust proof qualities. Despite this, care should always be taken to empty the kettle thoroughly after each use." because that means it has been reduced? Should I assume that all the kettles on HOJO have been through this process?

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by Oni » Jun 22nd 09 12:22 pm

As the making proces of a tetsubin is too complicated, most of the sellers won`t describe it step by step, but for now hojotea gave the most thourough description of the tetsubin. My advice to is to do some research before you buy your teaware, I want mine to be reduction fired, meaning that it has activated iron interior, and the interior should not be treated with urushi, that would affect it`s quality, and I would prefer ceramic mold vs sand iron kettle, such kettle are above 250$, but they are the REAL TETSUBIN, not those european fakes made in Hamburg germany and coated with enamel on the interior, those are not worth to look at.

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by clareandromeda » Jun 22nd 09 12:33 pm

Tead Off wrote:
MarshalN wrote: Reduction fired: Not all unlined tetsubin are reduction fired.
Number of castings from the mold:The less expensive ones will not be the same quality as either the tetsubin from a single casting or a series of just a handful of castings. The molds degrade with each casting.
How is the quality reduced by multiple castings?

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by xuancheng » Jun 22nd 09 12:53 pm

They might have a nice Tetsubin at the Tea Gallery you could look at.

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by clareandromeda » Jun 22nd 09 1:00 pm

xuancheng wrote:They might have a nice Tetsubin at the Tea Gallery you could look at.
is that a website? I went to theteagallery.com and there are no tetsubins.

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by hooksie » Jun 22nd 09 1:08 pm

xuancheng wrote:They might have a nice Tetsubin at the Tea Gallery you could look at.
I thought Mike's shop was temporarily closed up due to relocation (or something of the sort). Or is it back open?

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by xuancheng » Jun 22nd 09 1:13 pm

They have a shop in NYC, which is why I suggested it. I thought they might have one which you could look at in person. I don't know if they sell them, as you discovered they don't have them on their website.

Unfortunately, they are moving and only have a temporary space for tastings.

There must be somewhere in NYC you could get some hands on experience with.

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by Tead Off » Jun 22nd 09 1:39 pm

clareandromeda wrote:well I live in New York City and although I have found tetsubins here they are lined on the inside. Seeing one in person seems impossible :( So I should look for this quote on AN
"This kettle has been specially treated by steam baking for 30-40 minutes, an oxidisation process which improves its rust proof qualities. Despite this, care should always be taken to empty the kettle thoroughly after each use." because that means it has been reduced? Should I assume that all the kettles on HOJO have been through this process?
Reduction is not steam baking. It is a process of kiln firing without oxygen. Most potters know what this is. This renders the inside of the kettle a matte gray/blue. Once you've seen it, it would be easy to recognize. Read Hojo's description as all the answers to your questions are there.

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by clareandromeda » Jun 22nd 09 1:48 pm

Yes I've read Hojo. I'm really just trying to figure out if I can save money by buying a tetsubin on Artistic Nippon. Are the tetsubin's on Artistic Nippon reduced?

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by Tead Off » Jun 22nd 09 1:51 pm

Certainly reduced in price!

Isn't it worth it to spend more money with Hojo since he guarantees everything and has done so much work to educate you?

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by MarshalN » Jun 22nd 09 1:57 pm

Tead off... I'm sorry to say that Hojo's "education" from what I have seen so far are all a bit questionable.

I'm sure in person he's much more useful, but I still find many of Hojo's claims to be very questionable. For example, the whole idea that a tetsubin is not suitable for young puerh or black tea is .... well, is entirely contrary to my experience.

I know plenty of people who have bought from Artistic Nippon who have had very good experiences. If he offers a better price and if the buyer doesn't care about the make/look and just want a tetsubin, what's wrong with going with the cheaper version?

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by clareandromeda » Jun 22nd 09 2:00 pm

Tead Off wrote:Certainly reduced in price!

Isn't it worth it to spend more money with Hojo since he guarantees everything and has done so much work to educate you?
I think you are right. Ok so anyone with money to burn who wants a Fe reduced kettle should go to Hojo, the master.

I have been e-mailing with him and one should never but a tetsubin on a gas stove "Basically I do not suggest using gas stove. Gas stove generates moisture and oxidizes the iron when it burns. In a few months time, your tetsubin would get rusty on its surface. All you have to do is to get induction heater."

The cheapest tetsubins on Hojo's site are 21,600 yen or 225.31 USD. Not including shipping. I'll have to look into heat sourced. I like to do my research.