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Gaiwan ID help

by stevorama » Jul 3rd 17 1:12 am

I'm unsure of the age of these gaiwans. Any ID help appreciated! The yellow one is a favorite for brewing. It's very similar to modern/80s gaiwan, but stamp, paint and ceramic are different. The smallest looks to be Republic era perhaps? It's more of a teacup size than brewing vessel size. The dragon gaiwan appears oldest and I love the motif. It had no bottom plate.
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Re: Gaiwan ID help

by .m. » Jul 3rd 17 2:00 am

The dragon gaiwan looks interesting. The other two seem modern.

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Re: Gaiwan ID help

by stevorama » Jul 3rd 17 3:40 am

.m. wrote: The dragon gaiwan looks interesting. The other two seem modern.
Perhaps the pictures aren't showing some of the detail (reduced quality when I resized.) The calligraphy, hand painting and rough foot on the small one are quite similar to some republic cups I have. The yellow one has unglazed bottom, stamp and footing that differ from similar gaiwans with the "made in china" stamp. But again, I'm unsure of age here.

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Re: Gaiwan ID help

by stevorama » Jul 3rd 17 3:53 am

close up. still not great detail with resize.
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Re: Gaiwan ID help

by kuánglóng » Jul 3rd 17 9:42 am

Do you have a close-up of the dragon gaiwan, Steve?

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Re: Gaiwan ID help

by Bok » Jul 3rd 17 9:57 am

Yellow one looks pretty much like standard Chinatown ware. But then loks can be deceiving, went to the palace museum (TPE) and I have to admit the real yellow glaze stuff doesn’t look much different or more appealing than the cheap stuff from the Chinese supermarket :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: (gonna get myself crucified for saying this out loud, haha)

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Re: Gaiwan ID help

by Bok » Jul 3rd 17 9:58 am

concur with the others, the dragon cup looks interesting and unusual!

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Re: Gaiwan ID help

by stevorama » Jul 3rd 17 4:31 pm

The dragon gaiwan is really interesting. I'm curious about the eyeless dragon and floating eyeball motif.

Also pictured is a Japanese gaiwan (from 1950's I think.) It has amazing handpainted koi. It works best for under boiling water, otherwise burnt fingers!
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Re: Gaiwan ID help

by .m. » Jul 3rd 17 8:32 pm

stevorama wrote:
.m. wrote: The dragon gaiwan looks interesting. The other two seem modern.
Perhaps the pictures aren't showing some of the detail (reduced quality when I resized.) The calligraphy, hand painting and rough foot on the small one are quite similar to some republic cups I have. The yellow one has unglazed bottom, stamp and footing that differ from similar gaiwans with the "made in china" stamp. But again, I'm unsure of age here.
The glaze on the dragon gaiwan has this really nice hue and smoothness to its shine that remind me very much of some qing/roc porcelain (whether it's from that period or not). But i don't want to write off the other two pieces, i certainly don't have the expertise for that. As Bok have said above, with some antique pieces there are often no obvious signs of their age visible to amateurs like me.

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Re: Gaiwan ID help

by Hmm » Jul 3rd 17 9:18 pm

The yellow one has a guangxu mark on it, but I have my doubts. How fine is the porcelain? Often times republic era tea cups/bowls were much finer than a typical 80s cup. The yellow on it appears to be way too consistent to be Republican era, and the pattern a bit too simple. But it's really hard to see the details to be sure.

The dragon cup has a Kangxi leaf mark on it, but it's doubtful that it's Kangxi. Also it doesn't look like it was made in the Republican era either, since the clouds are different. Also the base doesn't look like something that traditionally came from that period. I'm going to assume it was made in the 70-80s.

That's my guess also as an amateur...

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Re: Gaiwan ID help

by stevorama » Jul 3rd 17 10:03 pm

I appreciate everyone's input! The good thing about these gaiwans is that they're very functional. The collection aspect is fun, but it's secondary to the tea drinking!

I think I managed to get better quality here. I included the bottom of what I think is a standard 80's gaiwan for comparison.
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Re: Gaiwan ID help

by Hmm » Jul 4th 17 5:17 am

stevorama wrote: I appreciate everyone's input! The good thing about these gaiwans is that they're very functional. The collection aspect is fun, but it's secondary to the tea drinking!

I think I managed to get better quality here. I included the bottom of what I think is a standard 80's gaiwan for comparison.
I agree. Drinking is the most important aspect. At some point I think that one shouldn't drink too often out of objects that are too old. A lot of republican era ceramics are finer than later pieces, and I would be too worried that they would end up cracking under the stress of heat.

Hmm. Perhaps I'm wrong to think this, but my assumption whenever I see a motif overlap another motif, is that it was done later, rather than early 20th. I assume that they were using a stencil and were just haphazardly drawing, spraying, or stamped the glaze on, rather than painstakingly using a brush to apply the glaze. That's just my general assumption. you will notice on the 壽 character, that the red circle is basically printed onto the "vine?" motif. I would think that in earlier periods, someone painting the object wouldn't do that, and would just make the vine a little bit smaller, or place it in a different place, etc. Or simply not paint the red circle right on top of it, but make it look like the "vine" overlapped the circle. Also the vine pattern is a bit too "exactly" repeated, so whoever did it, likely was "assisted"... Something you generally don't get with hand painted objects.

See e.g. http://gotheborg.com/marks/bild/1189_fullsize.jpg

In the 50s and even 60s I think a worker would have paid more attention to details. So I would place it in the last quarter of the 20th century, rather than any earlier.

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Re: Gaiwan ID help

by kuánglóng » Jul 4th 17 7:17 am

Hmm wrote:
I agree. Drinking is the most important aspect. At some point I think that one shouldn't drink too often out of objects that are too old. A lot of republican era ceramics are finer than later pieces, and I would be too worried that they would end up cracking under the stress of heat.
... the stress of heat or the usual fate that befalls most of them after some time, at least over here. I never seriously damaged any of my pots but I have a track record of broken gaiwans and cups and keep my older pieces in a vitrine.

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Re: Gaiwan ID help

by Bok » Jul 4th 17 7:30 am

kuánglóng wrote:
Hmm wrote:
I agree. Drinking is the most important aspect. At some point I think that one shouldn't drink too often out of objects that are too old. A lot of republican era ceramics are finer than later pieces, and I would be too worried that they would end up cracking under the stress of heat.
... the stress of heat or the usual fate that befalls most of them after some time, at least over here. I never seriously damaged any of my pots but I have a track record of broken gaiwans and cups and keep my older pieces in a vitrine.
But then, how long do you want to preserve a thing like this? If it is not a timeless piece of imense value, I’d rather use it. Otherwise the onject looses its point of existence.

I am shamelessly using all family antiques that I own :mrgreen:
Years and years in glass vitrines do not do them any good either…

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Re: Gaiwan ID help

by kuánglóng » Jul 4th 17 9:59 am

Bok wrote:
kuánglóng wrote:
Hmm wrote:
I agree. Drinking is the most important aspect. At some point I think that one shouldn't drink too often out of objects that are too old. A lot of republican era ceramics are finer than later pieces, and I would be too worried that they would end up cracking under the stress of heat.
... the stress of heat or the usual fate that befalls most of them after some time, at least over here. I never seriously damaged any of my pots but I have a track record of broken gaiwans and cups and keep my older pieces in a vitrine.
But then, how long do you want to preserve a thing like this? If it is not a timeless piece of imense value, I’d rather use it. Otherwise the onject looses its point of existence.

I am shamelessly using all family antiques that I own :mrgreen:
Years and years in glass vitrines do not do them any good either…
I'm not a real collector or someone who babies his stuff, it's just that most of those pieces have been gifted to me back in Asia. I'm OK with them just sitting around, reminding me of the wonderful folks who gave them to me and the individual stories behind them.