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Re: My first Yixing teapot

by TIM » Mar 9th 12 9:44 pm

gingkoseto wrote:
TIM wrote:
There are 5 main color clay. Before they call it Yixing Zisha, it was called 5 color earth or Prosperity earth.

http://themandarinstea.blogspot.com/200 ... -mine.html
I guess we have different understanding on "5 color earth" too. It's a cultural term used not only in zisha but other places, and my understanding of "5 color" in zisha is "many color" instead of literally 5 colors, referring to the many color shades of yixing products. My understanding of "5 color earth" out of the field of yixing is "all the earth of all the colors in the world".
I understanding perfectly about the cultural term. But the fact that your understanding is influenced by the cultural aspect and become a believe is why we are having this discussion. If the 5 color refers to the many color shades of yixing, then it should be name 7 color?

Well, in both books: "The Encyclopedia of Zisha" and "Chinese Zisha".
They both stated 5 main color earth as the original name: Purple, White, Yellow, Red, Green. And Subcategory of 6: White, Smooth (yellow), First (bone), Purple (Qing), Red (liver), Green. Divided from 9 main category inside Yixing.

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Re: My first Yixing teapot

by gingkoseto » Mar 10th 12 1:13 am

TIM wrote:
gingkoseto wrote:
TIM wrote:
There are 5 main color clay. Before they call it Yixing Zisha, it was called 5 color earth or Prosperity earth.

http://themandarinstea.blogspot.com/200 ... -mine.html
I guess we have different understanding on "5 color earth" too. It's a cultural term used not only in zisha but other places, and my understanding of "5 color" in zisha is "many color" instead of literally 5 colors, referring to the many color shades of yixing products. My understanding of "5 color earth" out of the field of yixing is "all the earth of all the colors in the world".
I understanding perfectly about the cultural term. But the fact that your understanding is influenced by the cultural aspect and become a believe is why we are having this discussion. If the 5 color refers to the many color shades of yixing, then it should be name 7 color?

Well, in both books: "The Encyclopedia of Zisha" and "Chinese Zisha".
They both stated 5 main color earth as the original name: Purple, White, Yellow, Red, Green. And Subcategory of 6: White, Smooth (yellow), First (bone), Purple (Qing), Red (liver), Green. Divided from 9 main category inside Yixing.
In Chinese, 3, 5, 7, 9 can all refer to many. So I believe it's not necessarily 7 color would mean many colors and 5 would be a definite number. But I think it's ok we don't believe the same thing.

Is "The Encyclopedia of Zisha" the one by Han Qilou 韩其楼?I have yet to find my copy of that book, but I think it's in chapter 1 or introductory chapter of the book that he mentions that white clay, yellow clay and Jia clay of yixing are usually used to make utility wares (such as plant pots), and purple, red, green (also called duan ni) are used for yixing tea ware that we talk about. He also mentions that zi sha refers to the last 3 types, and he calls the other types "ceramic clay sources".
I believe that's why some zi sha books/articles don't mention the other types at all.
If we both refer to the same book, then at least it's easier for us to at least point to the same thing. If it's a different book, then I have to look it up. But I blame the books I read and craftsmen I talked to for my understanding of these terms :mrgreen: Indeed I hadn't heard much of different opinions and thought people agreed each other on this. But then that's why I would like to hear more opinions.

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Re: My first Yixing teapot

by Abracadaver! » Mar 10th 12 4:12 am

bagua7 wrote:
tingjunkie wrote:How many pots have you destroyed Bagua? What's your favorite method for doing it?
Let me see:

1. Two duan ni (no refund asked as they were purchased cheap on eBay).
2. Three zi ni pots (one of them pin zi ni). Refund was asked and given.

How about you?
Isn't that a little...I don't know...extreme? I can understand not wanting to use them, but to flat out destroy a teapot? Why not keep them for display or make a planter out of them or something?

I don't really get it, but then again I guess I've never felt the need to take vengeance on bad teaware like that...

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Re: My first Yixing teapot

by Tead Off » Mar 10th 12 4:13 am

Interesting discussion. For me, this is a typical discussion about yixing with various interpretations and strenuous arguments about who is correct. Can you imagine how non-Chinese speakers must view the subject? :D

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Re: My first Yixing teapot

by chrl42 » Mar 10th 12 4:44 am

What I meant was manganese oxide. Most of Pin Zini contains manganese oxide.

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Re: My first Yixing teapot

by gingkoseto » Mar 10th 12 4:49 am

Tead Off wrote:Interesting discussion. For me, this is a typical discussion about yixing with various interpretations and strenuous arguments about who is correct. Can you imagine how non-Chinese speakers must view the subject? :D
Many things of tea, I don't think they are about right or wrong. The purpose of discussion is to learn what other people think. If if I don't agree with them, it's good to know there are things I don't agree with, rather than having the illusion that everybody agrees on something - I'm sure everybody has such illusions on many subjects, tea or what's not.

Before I came to the States, we learned very old style English and they told us the thing you use to erase pencil marks (aka eraser) should be called "rubber", and Fanny should be a very nice name for a girl. :o :mrgreen: And there were quite a few other funny words. So you know it's really important to know what a word means to other people. This is more important than what the word *really* means, because what a word *really* means is all subjectively determined by people.

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Re: My first Yixing teapot

by tingjunkie » Mar 10th 12 5:40 am

Abracadaver! wrote:
bagua7 wrote:
tingjunkie wrote:How many pots have you destroyed Bagua? What's your favorite method for doing it?
Let me see:

1. Two duan ni (no refund asked as they were purchased cheap on eBay).
2. Three zi ni pots (one of them pin zi ni). Refund was asked and given.

How about you?
Isn't that a little...I don't know...extreme? I can understand not wanting to use them, but to flat out destroy a teapot? Why not keep them for display or make a planter out of them or something?

I don't really get it, but then again I guess I've never felt the need to take vengeance on bad teaware like that...
He's just making the world a safer place... one teapot at a time. :mrgreen: Luckily, I only bought one fake Yixing pot. It was back in my very beginning stage of the hobby, and I took a gamble on eBay. I keep it on my bookshelf as a reminder not to make the same mistake again. I like the planter idea though! Mini bonsai time!

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Re: My first Yixing teapot

by the_economist » Mar 10th 12 6:01 am

i don't think any of my pots are fake yixing, thanks to this very forum. learnt a lot from the showoff thread.

i still kinda regret my first yixing pot though, cos its an enormous 200ml one.

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Re: My first Yixing teapot

by Herb_Master » Mar 10th 12 11:02 pm

the_economist wrote: i still kinda regret my first yixing pot though, cos its an enormous 200ml one.
Aaah! But one day 7 or 8 Teachatters will arrive in Singapore - and invite you to entertain us with some of your favourite teas :D

Then your first pot can come to the rescue :lol:

My favourite haunt in KL often uses 170 ml pots, there are usually 3 to 5 friends at the table - when the number exceeds 5 the shop owner excludes himself from the session.

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Re: My first Yixing teapot

by armin » Mar 10th 12 11:48 pm

And my post was only to buy a tiny Yixing pot hahahaha
I would definitely put a bonsai in a fake Yixing....

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Re: My first Yixing teapot

by etorix » Mar 12th 12 1:48 am

armin

did the pot arrive yet

i quite like zen8tea, i was buying tea off her before reading anything about her here

not tried her pots yet tho

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Re: My first Yixing teapot

by armin » Mar 12th 12 2:35 am

The pot is not here yet.... I am waiting for it....

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Re: My first Yixing teapot

by TIM » Mar 12th 12 4:41 pm

gingkoseto wrote: In Chinese, 3, 5, 7, 9 can all refer to many. So I believe it's not necessarily 7 color would mean many colors and 5 would be a definite number. But I think it's ok we don't believe the same thing.

Is "The Encyclopedia of Zisha" the one by Han Qilou 韩其楼?I have yet to find my copy of that book, but I think it's in chapter 1 or introductory chapter of the book that he mentions that white clay, yellow clay and Jia clay of yixing are usually used to make utility wares (such as plant pots), and purple, red, green (also called duan ni) are used for yixing tea ware that we talk about. He also mentions that zi sha refers to the last 3 types, and he calls the other types "ceramic clay sources".
I believe that's why some zi sha books/articles don't mention the other types at all.
If we both refer to the same book, then at least it's easier for us to at least point to the same thing. If it's a different book, then I have to look it up. But I blame the books I read and craftsmen I talked to for my understanding of these terms :mrgreen: Indeed I hadn't heard much of different opinions and thought people agreed each other on this. But then that's why I would like to hear more opinions.
Yes Gingkoseto, its the "Encyclopedia of Zisha" the one by Han Qilou.
Here is a link for those pages I mentioned.

Image

link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/65257125@N00/6976491211/

Aside, When I was visiting factory 1 and interviewing He Daohong. I did asked what is the best zisha or mine from. He mentioned Qing Long Mt. Mine is the best, not as the popular believe of Huang Long Mt. So, many opinions and even more speculations.... One thing I do believe in, its important to hold the real article in hands and make your own judgment with the help of a Master standing next to you :wink:

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Re: My first Yixing teapot

by gingkoseto » Mar 12th 12 7:11 pm

TIM wrote:
gingkoseto wrote: In Chinese, 3, 5, 7, 9 can all refer to many. So I believe it's not necessarily 7 color would mean many colors and 5 would be a definite number. But I think it's ok we don't believe the same thing.

Is "The Encyclopedia of Zisha" the one by Han Qilou 韩其楼?I have yet to find my copy of that book, but I think it's in chapter 1 or introductory chapter of the book that he mentions that white clay, yellow clay and Jia clay of yixing are usually used to make utility wares (such as plant pots), and purple, red, green (also called duan ni) are used for yixing tea ware that we talk about. He also mentions that zi sha refers to the last 3 types, and he calls the other types "ceramic clay sources".
I believe that's why some zi sha books/articles don't mention the other types at all.
If we both refer to the same book, then at least it's easier for us to at least point to the same thing. If it's a different book, then I have to look it up. But I blame the books I read and craftsmen I talked to for my understanding of these terms :mrgreen: Indeed I hadn't heard much of different opinions and thought people agreed each other on this. But then that's why I would like to hear more opinions.
Yes Gingkoseto, its the "Encyclopedia of Zisha" the one by Han Qilou.
Here is a link for those pages I mentioned.

Image

link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/65257125@N00/6976491211/

Aside, When I was visiting factory 1 and interviewing He Daohong. I did asked what is the best zisha or mine from. He mentioned Qing Long Mt. Mine is the best, not as the popular believe of Huang Long Mt. So, many opinions and even more speculations.... One thing I do believe in, its important to hold the real article in hands and make your own judgment with the help of a Master standing next to you :wink:
Oh yeah, that's the same book as mine. About the 3 clay types, I was referring to page 10 (which is third page in your picture) last paragraph. And he said it again on page 13, which should be the page after the last page in your picture.
But it's good to know we read the same book :D

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Re: My first Yixing teapot

by TIM » Mar 12th 12 11:54 pm

Glad that we are reading the same book, but could you point out the paragraph Gingkoseto you are referring to please or a closer scan? I cant find the subject you are referring to :cry: