User avatar
Mar 17th, '13, 21:44
Vendor Member
Posts: 1990
Joined: Apr 4th, '06, 15:07
Location: NYC
Contact: TIM

Re: Recent under $50 gongfu sharing thread.

by TIM » Mar 17th, '13, 21:44

futurebird wrote:Ok here are my next two "cheap" pots for this thread. (still hoping others post some) These are 50ml and 80ml respectively. They were $6.50 each and $3.50 shipping. I have only been using the smaller one for the past few week... every day.

Image

Image

Image

Image

I love these pots. They are in the shuiping shape. They are tiny. I love them. They do not have strainer holes.

I do wonder about the clay. What is it? The seller said it was "yixing from the 1990s" -- I have no idea if that's true, but whatever it is they work.
Just curious, have you try just pouring boiling hot water in them, wait for 3 mins or so, and taste the water difference compairing with a glass cup?

Mar 17th, '13, 22:05
Posts: 1622
Joined: Jun 24th, '08, 23:03

Re: Recent under $50 gongfu sharing thread.

by edkrueger » Mar 17th, '13, 22:05

theredbaron wrote:It is quite irrelevant if a pot was made in the 80's, 90's, or now, as it doesn't make much of a difference.
Its relevant when its relevant. If I traveled to the 80s and brought the same potter, clay, etc. back with me and then had him make the same pot I'd call it the same pot. But period correlates with potter, clay, quality, etc.

User avatar
Mar 17th, '13, 22:20
Posts: 714
Joined: Feb 12th, '13, 16:21
Location: South Bronx, NYC
Contact: futurebird

Re: Recent under $50 gongfu sharing thread.

by futurebird » Mar 17th, '13, 22:20

Interesting idea. Had to give it a try. (what I have done is brewed the same tea in this pot and in a gaiwan.) I used the larger pot which has only been used once since it was seasoned.

I can't say it has any very noticeable positive effect. In fact, I can't say it has any effect at all. Not on just water at least.

But maybe my mouth is worn out from too much tea.

User avatar
Mar 17th, '13, 22:25
Vendor Member
Posts: 1990
Joined: Apr 4th, '06, 15:07
Location: NYC
Contact: TIM

Re: Recent under $50 gongfu sharing thread.

by TIM » Mar 17th, '13, 22:25

futurebird wrote:Interesting idea. Had to give it a try. (what I have done is brewed the same tea in this pot and in a gaiwan.) I used the larger pot which has only been used once since it was seasoned.

I can't say it has any very noticeable positive effect. In fact, I can't say it has any effect at all. Not on just water at least.

But maybe my mouth is worn out from too much tea.
Start with the water first. It might help you grow.

Mar 18th, '13, 00:16
Posts: 760
Joined: Aug 1st, '12, 08:20
Location: not anymore Bangkok, not really arrived in Germany

Re: Recent under $50 gongfu sharing thread.

by theredbaron » Mar 18th, '13, 00:16

edkrueger wrote:
theredbaron wrote:It is quite irrelevant if a pot was made in the 80's, 90's, or now, as it doesn't make much of a difference.
Its relevant when its relevant. If I traveled to the 80s and brought the same potter, clay, etc. back with me and then had him make the same pot I'd call it the same pot. But period correlates with potter, clay, quality, etc.
If i get the choice to drink from either a humble Qing or ROC period red or purple clay common pot, or a fancy hyper master super senior artist's made pot worth a gadzillion - i will, without any hesitation, chose the former.

I wish that potters in Yixing would be less into marketing hype, and would concentrate more in re-inventing methods of the old days - prepare the clay the old way, and use wood fired dragon kilns again. For *tea drinking* this has far more effect than any fancy or rare clays, or big name master potters.

User avatar
Mar 18th, '13, 00:28
Posts: 709
Joined: Jan 5th, '13, 09:10

Re: Recent under $50 gongfu sharing thread.

by Teaism » Mar 18th, '13, 00:28

theredbaron wrote:
edkrueger wrote:
theredbaron wrote:It is quite irrelevant if a pot was made in the 80's, 90's, or now, as it doesn't make much of a difference.
Its relevant when its relevant. If I traveled to the 80s and brought the same potter, clay, etc. back with me and then had him make the same pot I'd call it the same pot. But period correlates with potter, clay, quality, etc.
If i get the choice to drink from either a humble Qing or ROC period red or purple clay common pot, or a fancy hyper master super senior artist's made pot worth a gadzillion - i will, without any hesitation, chose the former.

I wish that potters in Yixing would be less into marketing hype, and would concentrate more in re-inventing methods of the old days - prepare the clay the old way, and use wood fired dragon kilns again. For *tea drinking* this has far more effect than any fancy or rare clays, or big name master potters.

Quite unlikely that they go back to the old days as the real Yixing clay from Huang Long Shan is almost extinct. Nowadays it is almost all clay and some other material added in. The older pots form 70s -90s are better, real Yixing clay, definately improve the brew and safer. If I can't get the older pots, I would rather use Gaiwan. Some gaiwan, e.g. celedon definately improve the water taste too. Another good bet, if there is no choice, is to go for Japanese pots, which are undervalue and more authentic. For new Yixing pots, unless you are very knowledgable and certain, you have to be very very careful to pursue them. Don't cheat ourself that we can still get old Yixing pots for cheap price esp online. Nobody is so foolish to go through the trouble to sell old real authentic Yixing pot at a bargain. Unless we are foolish enough to believe.

Mar 18th, '13, 00:58
Posts: 760
Joined: Aug 1st, '12, 08:20
Location: not anymore Bangkok, not really arrived in Germany

Re: Recent under $50 gongfu sharing thread.

by theredbaron » Mar 18th, '13, 00:58

Teaism wrote: For new Yixing pots, unless you are very knowledgable and certain, you have to be very very careful to pursue them. Don't cheat ourself that we can still get old Yixing pots for cheap price esp online. Nobody is so foolish to go through the trouble to sell old real authentic Yixing pot at a bargain. Unless we are foolish enough to believe.

That's why i haven't bought a Yixing pot anymore in about ten years. I just don't know enough.

User avatar
Mar 18th, '13, 01:14
Posts: 714
Joined: Feb 12th, '13, 16:21
Location: South Bronx, NYC
Contact: futurebird

Re: Recent under $50 gongfu sharing thread.

by futurebird » Mar 18th, '13, 01:14

It does seem much easier to find new pots with all sorts of crazy embellishments and funny shapes -- that is it to find a basic teapot that's in a traditional style that is well tested and good for brewing.

But maybe it's harder to an artist to feel like they are expressing themselves with such simple forms? I don't know.

I half-suspect that such pots might seem boring and common to Chinese tea drinkers-- maybe many people have lots and lots of those pots on their shelves already-- with no idea that in the west such things are really hard to find and rocketing up in price.

The big factories made millions of pots in the 80s and 90s... where are they now? they can't all be broken.

Since I grew up drinking tea in a gaiwan I just can't go back. To me it's such a lonely-student way to drink tea. Too many bad memories of being trapped in the basement of the dorm studying with white tea to keep me up at night. :shock:

Mar 18th, '13, 01:43
Posts: 760
Joined: Aug 1st, '12, 08:20
Location: not anymore Bangkok, not really arrived in Germany

Re: Recent under $50 gongfu sharing thread.

by theredbaron » Mar 18th, '13, 01:43

futurebird wrote:
I half-suspect that such pots might seem boring and common to Chinese tea drinkers-- maybe many people have lots and lots of those pots on their shelves already-- with no idea that in the west such things are really hard to find and rocketing up in price.

The big factories made millions of pots in the 80s and 90s... where are they now? they can't all be broken.
Actually, on the opposite.
Chinese tea drinkers are the ones who have been and are buying up the all the older simple pots made with good clay. First were the Taiwanese, Hongkongese and Malaysians who bought and horded, for example, all the Cultural Revolution Shui Pings from Factory One during the 80's and 90's, both from China and Thailand, which at the time were a dime a dozen. Now it's mainland Chinese who buy them back from the aforementioned countries.
Demand of the west, which is a miniscule and barely emerging market in terms of Chinese tea, does not make any difference whatsoever. The Chinese market makes the price, and that is often much higher than any western tea drinker would be willing to pay.
Why would an Asian dealer offer pots to the west where he has a hard time to explain high prices, when he could sell without discussion to the Chinese market?

These pots are increasingly hard to find here in Asia as well, not just in the west. With the increasingly broad Chinese middle class rediscovering tea art, prices will only go up. The demand for old simple pots in China and other parts of tea drinking Asia by is by far higher than the dwindling supply.

The pots with fancy decorations are just imitations of "artist's" pots, which, if original works by master potters, can easily go into the 10 000 or even 100 000 US$ spheres. These pots though are more made for collecting than using and drinking.

User avatar
Mar 18th, '13, 01:46
Posts: 4536
Joined: Apr 1st, '09, 00:48
Location: Bangkok

Re: Recent under $50 gongfu sharing thread.

by Tead Off » Mar 18th, '13, 01:46

Teaism wrote:
theredbaron wrote:
edkrueger wrote:
theredbaron wrote:It is quite irrelevant if a pot was made in the 80's, 90's, or now, as it doesn't make much of a difference.
Its relevant when its relevant. If I traveled to the 80s and brought the same potter, clay, etc. back with me and then had him make the same pot I'd call it the same pot. But period correlates with potter, clay, quality, etc.
If i get the choice to drink from either a humble Qing or ROC period red or purple clay common pot, or a fancy hyper master super senior artist's made pot worth a gadzillion - i will, without any hesitation, chose the former.

I wish that potters in Yixing would be less into marketing hype, and would concentrate more in re-inventing methods of the old days - prepare the clay the old way, and use wood fired dragon kilns again. For *tea drinking* this has far more effect than any fancy or rare clays, or big name master potters.

Quite unlikely that they go back to the old days as the real Yixing clay from Huang Long Shan is almost extinct. Nowadays it is almost all clay and some other material added in. The older pots form 70s -90s are better, real Yixing clay, definately improve the brew and safer. If I can't get the older pots, I would rather use Gaiwan. Some gaiwan, e.g. celedon definately improve the water taste too. Another good bet, if there is no choice, is to go for Japanese pots, which are undervalue and more authentic. For new Yixing pots, unless you are very knowledgable and certain, you have to be very very careful to pursue them. Don't cheat ourself that we can still get old Yixing pots for cheap price esp online. Nobody is so foolish to go through the trouble to sell old real authentic Yixing pot at a bargain. Unless we are foolish enough to believe.
+1. But I would qualify your statement of Japanese pots. Some use better clay than others. Both Japanese and Korean pots are underrated performers. But both will outperform many modern Yixing pots and are better value. They are also handmade with REAL clay in many cases, and not mold-made or slip casted.

User avatar
Mar 18th, '13, 02:06
Posts: 709
Joined: Jan 5th, '13, 09:10

Re: Recent under $50 gongfu sharing thread.

by Teaism » Mar 18th, '13, 02:06

Yes Tead Off and theredbaron. Definately agreed with your thoughts. Very wise statement.

User avatar
Mar 18th, '13, 02:16
Posts: 714
Joined: Feb 12th, '13, 16:21
Location: South Bronx, NYC
Contact: futurebird

Re: Recent under $50 gongfu sharing thread.

by futurebird » Mar 18th, '13, 02:16

theredbaron wrote:The pots with fancy decorations are just imitations of "artist's" pots, which, if original works by master potters, can easily go into the 10 000 or even 100 000 US$ spheres. These pots though are more made for collecting than using and drinking.
I see.

What I don't understand is why I can find pots like this:

Image

All over the place for about $20-50... The above isn't really functional and it isn't fancy enough to be great art either. What is it trying to do? And why is it so hard to find the same thing but in a nice small/simple/plain shape? (I'm talking about new pots with the same clay, whatever it's merits or lack there of) I understand that smaller pots are potentially harder to make, but I can't even find many simple pots of poorer craftmanship. (which I would tolerate if it brought the price down)

If simple pots are in demand why isn't anyone making them in large numbers? They need not be real yixing clay even. I can't even find a plain white porcelain 40-70ml teapot for less than $50. (well, I think I found *one* ... but it was more than $50 with shipping) Even gaiwans are expensive.

Thanks for the advice, though, I think pots from Taiwan might be fruitful for my future purchases. Sadly, not many places are selling to the west. I'll need to ask around.

User avatar
Mar 18th, '13, 02:18
Posts: 714
Joined: Feb 12th, '13, 16:21
Location: South Bronx, NYC
Contact: futurebird

Re: Recent under $50 gongfu sharing thread.

by futurebird » Mar 18th, '13, 02:18

Tead Off wrote: +1. But I would qualify your statement of Japanese pots. Some use better clay than others. Both Japanese and Korean pots are underrated performers. But both will outperform many modern Yixing pots and are better value. They are also handmade with REAL clay in many cases, and not mold-made or slip casted.
What is "real clay" -- I'd assume that if it isn't yixing clay it is regular mud, not ground stone?

Also why are mold-made pots bad?

Mar 18th, '13, 02:36
Posts: 760
Joined: Aug 1st, '12, 08:20
Location: not anymore Bangkok, not really arrived in Germany

Re: Recent under $50 gongfu sharing thread.

by theredbaron » Mar 18th, '13, 02:36

futurebird wrote:
If simple pots are in demand why isn't anyone making them in large numbers? They need not be real yixing clay even. I can't even find a plain white porcelain 40-70ml teapot for less than $50. (well, I think I found *one* ... but it was more than $50 with shipping) Even gaiwans are expensive.
What is in demand are older simple pots - from a time when the clay was still pure, and when the pots were still fired in dragon kilns. Those days are gone, and gone are the days when you still could get these pots cheaply.

If you go to tea centers such as KL in Malaysia, you can find OK newer pots, and, if you search and get to know the right people, you may also be able to find pots from the 70's for somewhat reasonable prices.

Maybe you should invest into a tea holiday to Asia?

User avatar
Mar 18th, '13, 03:14
Posts: 4536
Joined: Apr 1st, '09, 00:48
Location: Bangkok

Re: Recent under $50 gongfu sharing thread.

by Tead Off » Mar 18th, '13, 03:14

futurebird wrote:
Tead Off wrote: +1. But I would qualify your statement of Japanese pots. Some use better clay than others. Both Japanese and Korean pots are underrated performers. But both will outperform many modern Yixing pots and are better value. They are also handmade with REAL clay in many cases, and not mold-made or slip casted.
What is "real clay" -- I'd assume that if it isn't yixing clay it is regular mud, not ground stone?

Also why are mold-made pots bad?
real clay=pure clay, no additives.
Mold made pots are not bad. Anything made in a mold is considered a commercial product. That isn't bad in itself, but if you want a handmade, one-of-a-kind object, it is not going to be fashioned in a mold. Many of the members here like artisan made products. It doesn't guarantee you that the clay is pure. That is another matter. Buying from 3rd party vendors usually gets you limited to no information about the contents of the clay, etc. Finding a vendor you can talk to and trust is the best way to buy teaware. Many of these online vendors don't know much about the things they are selling. They'll tell you almost anything. This also goes for many shopkeepers.

+ Post Reply