User avatar
Apr 18th 15 6:24 pm
Posts: 1670
Joined: Sep 2nd 13 7:22 am
Location: in your tea closet

Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!

by kyarazen » Apr 18th 15 6:24 pm

Hello fellow tea chatters,

I thought i would create a thread like this for pic and knowledge discussion. being half an yixing "monster" and gawking at pots on a daily basis, there are many pieces that i wished were mine!

strictly limited to only Factory 1 pots, from pre factory periods 1938, to strict factory periods 1958-1997 :) you can either post pics you come across (and reference them if needed), or post your own!

*edit - sorry folks, prefer not to have any authentication posts here, simply just for admiration.
Last edited by kyarazen on Apr 18th 15 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Apr 18th 15 6:29 pm
Posts: 1670
Joined: Sep 2nd 13 7:22 am
Location: in your tea closet

Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!

by kyarazen » Apr 18th 15 6:29 pm

Image
First up a nice set of 4 pots owned by Biao Zhun Hu on Fb.
All 4 of them are from the 60s, and the base seal if i'm not wrong is 6 character 大溪.

1st - Benshan lv ni Long dan
2nd - jia-zini Black apple
3rd - Gao Tang Po (hong ni)
4th - Zini Ping-tuo


bah! wished they were mine!
Last edited by kyarazen on Jul 26th 15 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Apr 18th 15 6:50 pm
Posts: 1670
Joined: Sep 2nd 13 7:22 am
Location: in your tea closet

Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!

by kyarazen » Apr 18th 15 6:50 pm

Next up... here's a 30-50s pair of Shuiping pots belonging to the "Peng-Gai" or Puffed Lid family. The puffed lid is a characteristic of pre-factory era shuipings. pictured here is a very sharp edge puff-lid, supposedly mostly exported to vietnam then.

these pots are owned by James Yu, Taiwan.
Image

User avatar
Apr 18th 15 6:57 pm
Posts: 1670
Joined: Sep 2nd 13 7:22 am
Location: in your tea closet

Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!

by kyarazen » Apr 18th 15 6:57 pm

here's a pot owned by a fellow tea-chatter and friend, Teaism. as seen on his lovely website teaism99.com

Image

beautiful peng gai! this style's probably closer to end 50s to very early 60s i think. (havent studied nor handled enough yet). i cannot see the spout tip very clearly but if i were to imagine it to be slightly perky, and if this is about 4 cup size.. then maybe the base seal is 南孟臣

Apr 18th 15 7:35 pm
Posts: 393
Joined: Apr 17th 14 7:18 pm

Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!

by BW85 » Apr 18th 15 7:35 pm

I've gotten accustomed to Instagram... I tried to double click and "like" that last shuiping picture :lol:

User avatar
Apr 18th 15 8:25 pm
Posts: 141
Joined: Oct 17th 10 3:04 pm

Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!

by hobin » Apr 18th 15 8:25 pm

I'm not really versed in F1 shuiping... what's the difference between 6-and 4-character pots? (I suppose the 6-character ones are rarer, I usually see plenty of yixing zhongguo seals)

Apr 18th 15 8:47 pm
Posts: 226
Joined: Aug 26th 13 10:29 pm

Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!

by wert » Apr 18th 15 8:47 pm

No offence, but it might be better if permission is obtained from the original posters to repost their images elsewhere.

User avatar
Apr 19th 15 1:23 am
Posts: 1670
Joined: Sep 2nd 13 7:22 am
Location: in your tea closet

Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!

by kyarazen » Apr 19th 15 1:23 am

:shock: :roll: :roll:

anyway these people are just so nice! and with their benevolence they had taught the world a lot :)

Image

which roughly translates - good day bro, feel free to use the pot pictures. but i have to say this pot isnt the prettiest in my collection. there are nicer ones!

another ->
Image

- ok, no problem, why focus on my own happiness, when happiness can be shared with everyone?

Apr 19th 15 2:03 am
Posts: 226
Joined: Aug 26th 13 10:29 pm

Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!

by wert » Apr 19th 15 2:03 am

Everyone can enjoy Factory pieces posted by others at various FB groups, including
https://www.facebook.com/groups/twteapot/

The FB group for the new book: https://www.facebook.com/groups/teapot2/

User avatar
Apr 19th 15 3:34 am
Posts: 1670
Joined: Sep 2nd 13 7:22 am
Location: in your tea closet

Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!

by kyarazen » Apr 19th 15 3:34 am

wert wrote:Everyone can enjoy Factory pieces posted by others at various FB groups, including
https://www.facebook.com/groups/twteapot/

The FB group for the new book: https://www.facebook.com/groups/teapot2/
as the topic goes, the theme is Not my F1, wished it were, and not about spamming pots. i will list out in due time if needed the various facebook groups. several tea chatters are part of the groups available but the lack of translations is complicated. if you like to have a thread of another theme, please go ahead.

i have to apologize that in our early correspondence with you, i acted stupid and noob, because i have to, to see how far people will go. i know you do sell on behalf of kenny's shop, which is a lovely shop that most people into yixing should visit if they are in singapore, but no thanks on the "bamboo theme pot". 我真的一定会喜欢?anything above $200 you absorb? i had picked up a piece at sunday flea market at half that and gave it away before, there are remaining pieces at Kenny's shop too. i did mention that his pots were expensive to see your opinion, but in actual fact, his pots are better priced than taiwanese sources. even if its pricier, i'm more than happy to let kenny earn my money, i've learnt much from my brief correspondences with him, and that his shop will be a shining beacon in southeast asian yixing especially in early Qing wares.

in any case, it is also not nice to tell me to be "careful" about Master Eric of C.Teahouse singapore. He doesnt sell F1 pots, only F2, F5 or his own custom commissions and had never pushed pots to anyone. He only wishes to preserve reasonably good tea culture and taste in Singapore, and the pot to him, as long as the material is good, will be able to make good tea. many of us respect him deeply and his benevolence in sharing rare and aged teas together with different skill sets, brewing methods and tasting guidance.

lets end our correspondence here.

User avatar
Apr 19th 15 3:44 am
Posts: 1670
Joined: Sep 2nd 13 7:22 am
Location: in your tea closet

Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!

by kyarazen » Apr 19th 15 3:44 am

hobin wrote:I'm not really versed in F1 shuiping... what's the difference between 6-and 4-character pots? (I suppose the 6-character ones are rarer, I usually see plenty of yixing zhongguo seals)
very good question :) there are many possible answers and many whom know different versions of the answers, but as far as my research goes (which is still on going) here's a quick summary

the 6 characters usually refer to 荆溪惠孟臣制,宜兴惠孟臣制 etc, where Jingxi = Old name for Yixing, Hui Meng Chen is the guy whom inspired the wave of small pots that many potters still make small pots in his name. these small pots were so instrumental in driving gongfu cha that there are old sayings.. pot must be mengchen, cup must be ruosheng.

The earliest 6 character appeared in Late Qing to ROC, i.e. 三点溪
then towards 30-50s Peng Gai Series there is 宜兴惠孟臣制,荆溪惠孟臣制(4脚),荆溪南孟臣制。

all these predated Factory 1, but when F1 was established in '58, some of these type of seals were incorporated into the factory work.

in the 58-60s, more variants of the 6 character sealed appeared, namely 大字溪,小字溪,川溪,along with the use of 4脚溪,南孟臣。these seals are rather prim and proper, neat, with cracks forming in them over usage, allowing people at later dates to quickly identify through these crack patterns, and supposedly to determine whether they are end 50s or mid 60s.

with the cultural revolution (66-76), and the need to distance themselves from historical/cultural elements, and to drive a more nationalistic idealogies, Zhong Guo Yixing in 4 character seal was coined to replace any mention of meng chen.

Taiwan was quite into Yixing pots then, due to their unfriendly connections with china then, there were mention of people grinding off the Zhong Guo Yixing seal at the base of the pot just to enable import, some were painted away.

After the CR, when relations became slightly more cordial, there was a reversion to 6 character seals which doesnt contain the Zhong Guo Word for easier import/exportation. Correspondingly, the green round stick with the "made in china" words on it was first issued around '77 up to '82, importers could decide whether to keep it or to remove it. During this era, there are also new 4 character seals created, i.e. if the author is Wang, the pot seal will be 荆溪王制 (Jing Xi, made by wang). Many of this style of 4 character seals are in taiwan. all these occured in parallel with the 4 character Zhong Guo Yixing stamp, and into the Fang Yuan label eras from '83 onward, makers started stamping their own names etc, and we can summarize here that in the 80s, seals are really diverse. But more interestingly the 6 character of the 80s is no longer in the prim and proper scripts of the 60s. they are rough, coarse, the dimensions are not as standardized, can be narrower, words are jagged.

Zhong Guo Yixing seals also has its own complications, a 6/4 seal seen in the 60s was seen re-used in end 70s, and said to be in some parts of 80s.

in the early 2000s, there was also a version of a re-carved 60s 4-leg seal, that was used on hong ni pots that were of a close clay quality of that of the 60s, xcept the firing was different. the person whom carved the seal is on face book and is actively involved in the recent publication on shuiping hu. he did leave some hidden flaw in the seal so that it can be easy to distinguish a pot of the re-carved seal vs an original 60s.

complicated no? :P but it will clear up really soon once you start playing.. reading, and discussing

Apr 19th 15 5:41 am
Posts: 672
Joined: Feb 12th 10 6:09 pm
Location: Cambridge, USA

Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!

by steanze » Apr 19th 15 5:41 am

My authentication skills are not good enough, so I have mostly modern pots for now :( I hope I'll manage to learn better skills to get some real F1 pots.

User avatar
Apr 19th 15 5:57 am
Posts: 160
Joined: Feb 17th 15 9:32 am
Location: Land of Appletea Tree

Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!

by AT333 » Apr 19th 15 5:57 am

kyarazen wrote:

in the early 2000s, there was also a version of a re-carved 60s 4-leg seal, that was used on hong ni pots that were of a close clay quality of that of the 60s, xcept the firing was different. the person whom carved the seal is on face book and is actively involved in the recent publication on shuiping hu. he did leave some hidden flaw in the seal so that it can be easy to distinguish a pot of the re-carved seal vs an original 60s.
Nice summary. Are you referring to the 4-leg Shi seal? I though 4-legged Shi is only for pots of 1930-1950s. If I am wrong, and there is 1960s 4 legged Shi, can you share with us on the details of the hidden seal to distinguish early 2000 and 60s 4-leg seal. I guess I am as confused as many chatters here. :mrgreen:

User avatar
Apr 19th 15 8:51 am
Posts: 1670
Joined: Sep 2nd 13 7:22 am
Location: in your tea closet

Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!

by kyarazen » Apr 19th 15 8:51 am

this picture is cropped from the one posted by Bat Omega on FB, and reposted with his blessings
but instead of posting the answer straight, lets have some fun and guess work, which is the new seal and which is old? amongst these 3?

Image


AT333 wrote: Nice summary. Are you referring to the 4-leg Shi seal? I though 4-legged Shi is only for pots of 1930-1950s. If I am wrong, and there is 1960s 4 legged Shi, can you share with us on the details of the hidden seal to distinguish early 2000 and 60s 4-leg seal. I guess I am as confused as many chatters here. :mrgreen:

User avatar
Apr 19th 15 8:57 am
Posts: 1670
Joined: Sep 2nd 13 7:22 am
Location: in your tea closet

Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!

by kyarazen » Apr 19th 15 8:57 am

steanze wrote:My authentication skills are not good enough, so I have mostly modern pots for now :( I hope I'll manage to learn better skills to get some real F1 pots.
oh.. no worries actually, modern pots do just as well for tea. it is just that in chinese porcelain, pottery or ceramic culture, there is a tendency to divide items simply into 2 classes, one is "官窑" guan yao - wares for officials/aristocrat/imperial/nobels, the other is "民窑" min yao - wares for the normal class like daily use items. in porcelain, there is a huge price gap between these classes.

there is a drive to consider early era F1 pots as "guan yao" standard. in the mid to high end collectors, green label items are loved for the clay but not the workmanship, Square labels/fang yuan label pots are considered "rough" already, despite being F1. This is not entirely true as there are fine items even amongst the FY label ones if you go for certain designs, and if you have big enough quantities to sort and select.