Apr 28th 17 9:01 pm
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buying teapot with real, high quality zisha clay

by lotustea » Apr 28th 17 9:01 pm

Hi all,

I'm looking to buy a couple of zisha teapots. I saw on ebay and these two webpages selling the teapot I like. Does anyone has experience with these sellers? Are these sellers trustworthy? I'm buying the teapot to make tea and not an investment so I focus on real zisha and high quality clay, and not so much on famous artist.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-handmade-L ... 2266184895

http://www.wanlingteahouse.com/section. ... 9e6242f19b

http://www.yixingclayteapot.com/hn106ch ... p0968.html

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Apr 28th 17 10:33 pm
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Re: buying teapot with real, high quality zisha clay

by victoria3 » Apr 28th 17 10:33 pm

I would recommend a reputable vendor like Essence of tea, https://www.essenceoftea.com/teaware/clay/yixing.html

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Apr 29th 17 8:49 am
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Re: buying teapot with real, high quality zisha clay

by NPE » Apr 29th 17 8:49 am

I very much second victoria3's suggestion. Or you could try Teamasters http://www.tea-masters.com/en/18-yixing-teapots. I would not trust the ones you have lised, though...

Apr 30th 17 4:50 am
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Re: buying teapot with real, high quality zisha clay

by Alucard » Apr 30th 17 4:50 am

I have two pots from Chawang Tea Shop. It's worth a look:

https://www.chawangshop.com/tea-hardwar ... apots.html

Apr 30th 17 9:32 pm
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Re: buying teapot with real, high quality zisha clay

by lotustea » Apr 30th 17 9:32 pm

Thank you. These sites have teapots make from high quality zisha clay and make by famous masters. The problem is they are too plain. I'm interested in the plum blossom design on ebay and the hei jin sha yixing teapot. The teapot on ebay is cheap that probably not real. Yixingclayteapot website is crap make me feel suspicious of them. I thought some of you might have experience with Wan Ling tea, especially those of you from australia and uk. Wan Ling had been interviewed with CNN and other news. They had Great Leaf award with Australia and Golden Taste award with UK. I would think they more likely to sell real zisha teapot.

May 1st 17 5:15 am
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Re: buying teapot with real, high quality zisha clay

by LouPepe » May 1st 17 5:15 am

lotustea wrote: Thank you. These sites have teapots make from high quality zisha clay and make by famous masters. The problem is they are too plain. I'm interested in the plum blossom design on ebay and the hei jin sha yixing teapot. The teapot on ebay is cheap that probably not real. Yixingclayteapot website is crap make me feel suspicious of them. I thought some of you might have experience with Wan Ling tea, especially those of you from australia and uk. Wan Ling had been interviewed with CNN and other news. They had Great Leaf award with Australia and Golden Taste award with UK. I would think they more likely to sell real zisha teapot.
Most good clay pots in that price range will be plain. If you want good clay and something more artistic/detailed, be prepared to pay more money. Good luck.

May 1st 17 6:59 pm
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Re: buying teapot with real, high quality zisha clay

by lotustea » May 1st 17 6:59 pm

I'm willing to pay more. I'm just afraid to pay more for fake stuff.

May 2nd 17 1:04 am
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Re: buying teapot with real, high quality zisha clay

by LouPepe » May 2nd 17 1:04 am

lotustea wrote: I'm willing to pay more. I'm just afraid to pay more for fake stuff.
The dilemma is- if you pay more for a modern pot the likelihood of getting better clay rises but not exponentially, and finding an old pot with designs such as the ones you desire is a lot more difficult if you are buying online. There is jingteashop which carried a few online of pretty decent to good clay but they don't sell very much anymore. Then there is Postcardteas which commissioned some pots (with artistic design) from a reputable modern artist but those pots are almost in the $1000 range, and also almost all sold out. Under $500 is a crapshoot for modern pots with carvings, fruit/nature designs, etc.

Your best bet (in terms of shopping on the internet) is speaking directly with the recommended vendors and let them know what you are looking for to see if they can help. This is of course if money is not an issue. I think many vendors won't want to waste their time if the turnover is small, but you never know.

May 2nd 17 1:21 am
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Re: buying teapot with real, high quality zisha clay

by steanze » May 2nd 17 1:21 am

lotustea wrote: I'm willing to pay more. I'm just afraid to pay more for fake stuff.
The price for a decent pot with elaborate design starts at about 1000 usd. Unless you're ok with the mould-made factory pots with floral designs. If you don't have much experience with yixing teapots, it will take you about 1-2 years of study with simpler teapots to be able judge the clay quality and the artistic refinement of the pot. You can't learn to play violin overnight...

I suggest that you start with a plain pot with good quality clay, to learn about clay quality, and make your way upwards from there.

May 2nd 17 7:09 pm
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Re: buying teapot with real, high quality zisha clay

by lotustea » May 2nd 17 7:09 pm

Thank you. I bought a zisha plum blossom teapot just like the one in the ebay link, except that it is green instead of red from a store in VietNam for around 130usd. It comes with a hand written certificate. I have not use it so I can't be for sure if it is real. However, I did read about how to determine if the zisha teapot is real. I tried some tests and boil the teapot for 30 minutes. It doesn't crack or loose color. I think it might be real. I probably don't know for sure until I use it for a couple of months. Even if it is real I think it is make from decent zisha clay and not from top quality zisha clay. It probably made by little known artist, which I don't mind.
I don't mind if it is not hand-made as long as it work fine. I don't want to pay big money for famous artist. I saw on Wan Ling tea website that if customer has a special request for a certain teapot just email them. I think I will do that. They located in Shanghai which is not too far from Yixing.

May 3rd 17 6:19 am
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Re: buying teapot with real, high quality zisha clay

by Bok » May 3rd 17 6:19 am

lotustea wrote: I probably don't know for sure until I use it for a couple of months. Even if it is real I think it is make from decent zisha clay and not from top quality zisha clay. It probably made by little known artist, which I don't mind.
Only using it longer won’t give you a clue if it is real or not. Only by comparison and study of other certified real ones will you be able to do so – as others have said that takes a long time!

May 3rd 17 7:44 pm
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Re: buying teapot with real, high quality zisha clay

by lotustea » May 3rd 17 7:44 pm

Thank you. There is one thing that I'm not clear about your answer. I have not use the zisha teapot I have. From what I know about zisha clay it absorbs the tea flavor, etc. as one use the teapot and therefore it improves the tea taste overtime as one use the zisha teapot more often. So should one be able to determine if the zisha teapot is real when study a teapot that has been use for sometime and determine that it does improve the tea? Isn't this part of the experience? Another clay would not effect tea taste quality. Seeing some characteristic change overtime to the teapot should give an indication whether the teapot is zisha or not. Am I wrong on this?
Also, for someone new how are they going to compare with the certified real zisha teapot? If someone can fake a teapot there no reason to believe they can't fake a certificate. For someone new he/she don't even know what is real to buy, how does he/she knows the teapot he/she compare to is real? Experience is very important, however, in my opinion for someone new the seller reputation is the only thing he/she can go by. The certificate help, but I would not put 100% faith on that. My goal of putting up this question is so the users in this forum can help me identify trust worthy sellers. Some of you gave me some sellers that you trust. Unfortunately, these sellers do not have what I'm looking for. Unfortunately, none of you have experience with Wan Ling tea. In my opinion experience is a tool to double check the seller. When buying online if you have experience and realize that they sell you a fake teapot it is still a hassle to return it. Working with a trusted seller is still the top priority and the first check. There are some cheap imitation and there are sophisticated imitation and even professional have a hard time identify sophisticated imitation. You have time to study to determine real from fake, the people who make fake stuff also have time to study the real one so they can make fake stuff so real. Buyer reputation is the first check, experience is the second check, certificate is the the third check.

May 4th 17 3:50 am
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Re: buying teapot with real, high quality zisha clay

by steanze » May 4th 17 3:50 am

lotustea wrote: So should one be able to determine if the zisha teapot is real when study a teapot that has been use for sometime and determine that it does improve the tea? Isn't this part of the experience? Another clay would not effect tea taste quality. Seeing some characteristic change overtime to the teapot should give an indication whether the teapot is zisha or not. Am I wrong on this?
Most clays affect taste one way or another. The fact that a pot affects the taste of the tea does not mean that it is made of zisha.
lotustea wrote: Also, for someone new how are they going to compare with the certified real zisha teapot? If someone can fake a teapot there no reason to believe they can't fake a certificate. For someone new he/she don't even know what is real to buy, how does he/she knows the teapot he/she compare to is real?
That's a great question. Certificates are indeed faked. Also, a certificate stating that a random unknown artisan made the pot could be both real and worthless. To learn how to recognize real pots, you can start by looking at how people on the forum are discussing the teapots posted. This facebook page is also very informative: https://www.facebook.com/groups/teapot2/
lotustea wrote: Experience is very important, however, in my opinion for someone new the seller reputation is the only thing he/she can go by. The certificate help, but I would not put 100% faith on that.
I would agree with what you said before that the certificate is quite useless :D Seller reputation can be useful, and studying the pots and clays here on this forum and on the facebook group I linked.
lotustea wrote: My goal of putting up this question is so the users in this forum can help me identify trust worthy sellers. Some of you gave me some sellers that you trust. Unfortunately, these sellers do not have what I'm looking for.
I am afraid you might be looking for someone who sells a Ferrari for $200. If someone agrees to sell you a Ferrari for $200, you might want to be skeptical. For example, I'd rate the clay quality of the plum blossom pot in the ebay link as really really bad bordering on the tragic.
lotustea wrote: Unfortunately, none of you have experience with Wan Ling tea.
Is it this place? http://www.wanlingteahouse.com/section. ... ng-teapots The pots look alright, modern clays, most of them seem real Yixing, but I'd say on the mid-low end in terms of quality. Quite similar to the pots sold by the ebay seller lukevcent. They can do the job, but if you are looking for "high quality clay", that is not it.

I think we should start from a different question: what tea would you like to make? Because the optimal teapots to make different kinds of tea are
quite different.

May 4th 17 5:59 am
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Re: buying teapot with real, high quality zisha clay

by Bok » May 4th 17 5:59 am

lotustea wrote: Thank you. There is one thing that I'm not clear about your answer. I have not use the zisha teapot I have. From what I know about zisha clay it absorbs the tea flavor, etc. as one use the teapot and therefore it improves the tea taste overtime as one use the zisha teapot more often. So should one be able to determine if the zisha teapot is real when study a teapot that has been use for sometime and determine that it does improve the tea?
Quote MarshalN one internet authority in regards to old pots:
I’ve written about using pots before. Basically, they don’t affect the tea nearly as much as most people think, and physical attributes (size, shape, pour speed, etc) are much more important than things like clay.
The effect on the tea is hugely overstated and it takes a developed palate to discern it and make out the difference. It might work if you are very used and experienced brewing one kind of tea and then you can see if it improves it or not. But I think most people couldn’t taste the difference and just have some sort of wishful thinking effect.
lotustea wrote: The certificate help, but I would not put 100% faith on that.
What I meant is a judgement from people who know what they are talking about, eg own a lot of pots, have handled a lot of old pots, museum people etc. you get the drift. Of course certificates, stickers, boxes all this can and is faked. One good indication is price. High price is no garantuee of a real pot, but a real one will never be cheap.

May 4th 17 7:00 pm
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Re: buying teapot with real, high quality zisha clay

by lotustea » May 4th 17 7:00 pm

Yes steanze, I agree the pot on eBay is not make from high quality grade zisha, it might not even be zisha clay. Actually, I do not expect to buy high quality zisha teapot for low price. What am interested to find out is if Wan Ling tea is reliable and from them I'll try to find out how much it cost for a good quality grade teapot. I'm not going to buy what they currently have. Seeing their prices I know the teapots are not good quality. I'm going to ask them to find what I'm looking for. After reading Bok message I might not even get a zisha pot. What the point of getting an expensive zisha teapot if I might not be able to notice the improvement of my tea quality. I'm not obsess with zisha clay. I think porcelain teapot look better. It is what some claim zisha clay improve tea quality because it has pores and absorb tea. This is why I'm interested in zisha. If the improvement is minor and I can't notice it then there is no point in getting high quality zisha teapot.