May 2nd 15 12:57 pm
Posts: 156
Joined: Jan 13th 13 4:46 pm

Re: Electric Kettles

by thirst » May 2nd 15 12:57 pm

There are two kettle-related things that I’ve been wondering about from time to time. First, the notion that you should use fresh water and not reboil; and then I went to Taiwan and all the tea houses used kettles where the same water just boiled constantly (though of course, what’s best for a relaxing tea house setting might not be best for a tea). Second, hearing that you should use basically the hottest possible water for things like pu (which I admittedly haven’t explored at all basically), and then I see lots of videos where the last boil must have been a while ago and where the water in the kettle can’t possible be that hot. What’s up with that?

Also wondering about heat loss through that Bonavita’s gooseneck spout.

User avatar
May 2nd 15 1:39 pm
Posts: 1657
Joined: Sep 2nd 13 7:22 am
Location: in your tea closet
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Electric Kettles

by kyarazen » May 2nd 15 1:39 pm

thirst wrote:There are two kettle-related things that I’ve been wondering about from time to time. First, the notion that you should use fresh water and not reboil; and then I went to Taiwan and all the tea houses used kettles where the same water just boiled constantly (though of course, what’s best for a relaxing tea house setting might not be best for a tea). Second, hearing that you should use basically the hottest possible water for things like pu (which I admittedly haven’t explored at all basically), and then I see lots of videos where the last boil must have been a while ago and where the water in the kettle can’t possible be that hot. What’s up with that?

Also wondering about heat loss through that Bonavita’s gooseneck spout.
fresh water ends up having oxygen boiled out of it, and the texture of the water does change if you boil it too much. sometimes i'm lazy and re-boil boiled water.. the contrast can be tasted just by the water alone

the second thing is that the hottest water, contains the most "energy" to be given off when dispensed. as you dispense, apart from the temperature drop, once the water hits the leaves/pot, energy is quickly loss and steam is released. this steam permeates the leaves deeply and allow the aromatics to be eluted. (dont try this, but you can gently pour freshly boiled water into a flask, leave it on its own and nothing happens, but if you shake the sealed flask, this sudden motion will cause steam to form, and when you carefully unscrew the lid of the flask you will hear the steam escape dangerously)

User avatar
May 2nd 15 3:14 pm
Posts: 297
Joined: Jan 22nd 15 4:27 am
Location: Chicago
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Electric Kettles

by pedant » May 2nd 15 3:14 pm

thirst wrote:There are two kettle-related things that I’ve been wondering about from time to time. First, the notion that you should use fresh water and not reboil; and then I went to Taiwan and all the tea houses used kettles where the same water just boiled constantly (though of course, what’s best for a relaxing tea house setting might not be best for a tea).
yeah, i see that all over, too.

on particular example i remember is at the famous Tsuen teashop (est. 1160 CE):

Image

that old kettle simmered away indefinitely on coals, and that's what he prepared tea for us with. a good memory.

oh wow, i've never noticed this before, but look behind that tea table... there's a zojirushi water boiler or something. anyways, we were there for a good while, and he never used it.
thirst wrote: Also wondering about heat loss through that Bonavita’s gooseneck spout.
i'm wondering about that too now. i could only see it as a possibility for pouring small volumes of water (which applies for gongfu). i'd guess that it's not a big issue. if it is an issue, i bet you could resolve it by tilting the kettle back and forth once or twice to warm the neck before pouring (or discarding the first part of the pour).

User avatar
May 2nd 15 3:29 pm
Posts: 1136
Joined: Dec 2nd 07 10:53 pm
Location: New York

Re: Electric Kettles

by joelbct » May 2nd 15 3:29 pm

OK I notice the water gauges on the Cusinart and the Breville models = a non issue because just like my Hamilton Beach, the interior is stainless, plastic only on the exterior and tiny ring around the gauge inlets.

I prefer Breville design, but now I remember, the lid is plastic...
[img]http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j6/jo ... peic3.jpeg[/img]

So I think I've narrowed it down to the Cuisinart, the Glass Breville, or the non gooseneck Bonavita...

I think I can live with preset buttons, and a few reviews on Amazon also mention having the Cuisinart for 5 years.

User avatar
May 2nd 15 4:07 pm
Posts: 1136
Joined: Dec 2nd 07 10:53 pm
Location: New York

by joelbct » May 2nd 15 4:07 pm

And actually this thread brings up another point... obviously with greens one can just calibrate temp/cooling time to taste, but for an objective measure, what is a good thermometer?

I'm just using a $10 espresso thermometer from amazon, it's not calibrated bec boiling water poured off only climbs to 190 F or so. I should prob do the ice slush water calibration again.

Anyway time to brew my Spring 2015 Yunnan Sourcing Mojiang Golden Bud. Ah the weekend...

May 3rd 15 12:28 am
Vendor Member
Posts: 1301
Joined: May 27th 12 4:47 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Electric Kettles

by ethan » May 3rd 15 12:28 am

H20 = 2 parts hydrogen 1 part oxygen = water

if boiling water removed oxygen, one could boil water until it became hydrogen

steam is not only oxygen; steam is water that is only slightly different than the water that remains in the kettle which is H20 (not H1.50)

I was an English major, but come on guys... cheers

May 3rd 15 12:40 am
Posts: 30
Joined: Aug 18th 13 1:16 am

Electric Kettles

by PAQF » May 3rd 15 12:40 am

Ethan, I think what is meant is that there is actually oxygen dissolved in water. It's solubility decreases with temperature so when water cools after being boiled, the amount of oxygen left in solution is significantly smaller.

User avatar
May 3rd 15 2:27 am
Posts: 111
Joined: Mar 29th 12 4:23 am
Location: NYC

Re: Electric Kettles

by javi_sanchez » May 3rd 15 2:27 am

Tewa wrote:I've done countless hours of research into glass kettles...
I use these two, the first for stove top, the second on an induction top and have not had any problems. I get to see the water too!

For induction plate

For stove top

May 3rd 15 5:34 am
Posts: 7
Joined: Sep 2nd 14 1:08 am

Re: Electric Kettles

by Dryicefox » May 3rd 15 5:34 am

At all costs, avoid Adagio's Utilitea.

It has two settings only, the marks are lies meant to make the consumer think there are settings, the marks are solely aesthetics other than the green and orange marks.

But, if you like making tea at either 212 F or 180 F, this is the cheap pot for sure.

I've got one, it makes me miserable. I've gotta wait for the water to cool to a certain temp before I can actually use it to wait on the tea to steep.

May 3rd 15 5:37 am
Posts: 7
Joined: Sep 2nd 14 1:08 am

Re: Electric Kettles

by Dryicefox » May 3rd 15 5:37 am

ethan wrote:H20 = 2 parts hydrogen 1 part oxygen = water

if boiling water removed oxygen, one could boil water until it became hydrogen

steam is not only oxygen; steam is water that is only slightly different than the water that remains in the kettle which is H20 (not H1.50)

I was an English major, but come on guys... cheers
I love this. Not just because it's funny, but it's true.
The point is to have extra oxygen trapped in the water. O2(aq) is what we are going for to help the tea steep.

Thanks for pointing that out, hopefully no one believed that boiling water removes the oxygen atom from the molecule.

User avatar
May 3rd 15 6:23 am
Posts: 297
Joined: Jan 22nd 15 4:27 am
Location: Chicago
Been thanked: 2 times

Re:

by pedant » May 3rd 15 6:23 am

joelbct wrote:And actually this thread brings up another point... obviously with greens one can just calibrate temp/cooling time to taste, but for an objective measure, what is a good thermometer?
ThermoWorks makes some of the best thermometers for kitchen use.
If you have the cash and want the best, I recommend getting either a ThermaPen or a TempTest1

http://www.thermoworks.com/products/thermapen/
http://thermoworks.com/products/handheld/temptest1.html

The ThermaPen is the thermometer you typically see professional chefs reach for on cooking shows.

I have a TempTest1 myself, and I absolutely love it.

here is a lower priced option that has excellent accuracy and speed:
http://www.thermoworks.com/products/low ... mopop.html
if you don't want to spend $100 on a thermometer but you want something high quality, i highly recommend the $30 Thermopop instead.

this is one of the best resources for thermometer info/reviews:
http://amazingribs.com/bbq_equipment_re ... nd-ratings

edit:
one thing to consider when shopping for a thermometer is response time.
ThermaPen and TempTest1 give an accurate reading in 2-3 seconds.
ThermaPop gives a reading in 5-6 seconds.
most economy thermometers in the $5-20 range give a reading in 15-30 seconds. i'm impatient.

check this out too if you want:
http://amazingribs.com/bbq_equipment_re ... _order=ASC
this is a query for thermometers they rated 'gold' or 'silver' sorted by price.

here are a couple of other good and inexpensive options:
ThermoWorks RT600C
http://amazingribs.com/bbq_equipment_re ... hermometer
CDN DTQ450X
http://amazingribs.com/bbq_equipment_re ... dn-dtq450x
Last edited by pedant on May 3rd 15 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

May 3rd 15 6:41 am
Posts: 392
Joined: Apr 17th 14 7:18 pm

Re: Electric Kettles

by BW85 » May 3rd 15 6:41 am

Dryicefox wrote:
ethan wrote:H20 = 2 parts hydrogen 1 part oxygen = water

if boiling water removed oxygen, one could boil water until it became hydrogen

steam is not only oxygen; steam is water that is only slightly different than the water that remains in the kettle which is H20 (not H1.50)

I was an English major, but come on guys... cheers
I love this. Not just because it's funny, but it's true.
The point is to have extra oxygen trapped in the water. O2(aq) is what we are going for to help the tea steep.

Thanks for pointing that out, hopefully no one believed that boiling water removes the oxygen atom from the molecule.
I don't think any one was saying that.. But referring to dissolved oxygen in water separate from the H2O molecule

May 3rd 15 12:39 pm
Vendor Member
Posts: 1301
Joined: May 27th 12 4:47 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Electric Kettles

by ethan » May 3rd 15 12:39 pm

Honestly, my first goal was humor; &, my mind cannot truly understand oxygen dissolving in water. That kind of conception is beyond me; &, I would not know why hydrogen would not dissolve also making the end result H20 in the kettle & in the air as steam.

I have just prepared my favorite tea, Himalayan Orange black tea w/ water that was boiled last night, sat, & was boiled again this morning. The tea tastes the same as it did last night. That is my empirical, personal (thus subjective) observation about re-boiling water. My palate is fairly sensitive, for I can taste the difference between use of my thin-walled gaiwan & my thick-walled gaiwan.

I'm glad some of you caught the humor. Teachat is friendly, polite, & informative, but sometimes lacking wit (of course I might be missing some of it). Cheers

User avatar
May 3rd 15 12:40 pm
Posts: 1657
Joined: Sep 2nd 13 7:22 am
Location: in your tea closet
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Electric Kettles

by kyarazen » May 3rd 15 12:40 pm

and of course the fish in the water and all sorts of aquatic marine creatures do not breathe~

they run on solar energy 8)

User avatar
May 3rd 15 1:40 pm
Posts: 10
Joined: Apr 18th 15 5:27 pm

Re: Electric Kettles

by HEEGZ » May 3rd 15 1:40 pm

I use two electric kettles. They both have automatic shut off and no temp control. I decided not to get the more expensive temp control kettles because I use my teaware to adjust temp, and am only drinking japanese greens right now. Both kettles make identical tasting tea to me, but it is more enjoyable to look at the water in the glass kettle. In any case, these are the two I use now:

http://www.amazon.com/Aroma-Cordless-El ... 00GX94E40/

http://www.amazon.com/Capresso-259-Kett ... 000BY4ZHO/

I had also looked at thermometers for a long time, but have been able to figure out how to make tasty tea without them and never ended up buying one. If I do decide to get one, this is the one I picked out:

http://www.amazon.com/Taylor-9842-Comme ... 00009WE45/

Of course I haven't used it before, but I liked the option of C/F and storage sleeve, not rolling around, and waterproof. Plus lots of good reviews. Good luck with your selections. Those gooseneck kettles are awfully tempting. 8)