Jan 25th, '17, 00:29
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Re: NEW! Official Teaware of the Day!

by onjinone » Jan 25th, '17, 00:29

jayinhk wrote:On the rice grain cups...they are quite collectible now. Quite a market for vintage ones in China and people are grabbing up old stock. They're still made today, but the craftsmanship is nothing like it used to be.

You can check out seals and guesstimate age based on the info here:

http://www.gotheborg.com/marks/20thcenturychina.shtml

I snagged an older one a few months ago; so much nicer than the new ones. I used to enjoy looking at them when I was a kid as they were cheap and commonly used at Chinese restaurants here in HK. I thought they were very pretty, even when I was 10 or 11. Thinking back just reminded me of the evening my dad ordering drunken shrimp for the first time. I remember how much we loved 'em!

I'm actually using a rice grain teapot to drink liu an with aglaia odorata since I have a cold. This particular tea is exceptionally nice and has a really pleasant taste.
Interestingly enough, some families actually pass them down and use them for the Chinese style weddings where the bride and groom are supposed to pour tea for family elders. Aside from that I never see these anymore except for the common lesser quality ones.

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Jan 25th, '17, 01:33
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Re: NEW! Official Teaware of the Day!

by jayinhk » Jan 25th, '17, 01:33

onjinone wrote:
jayinhk wrote:On the rice grain cups...they are quite collectible now. Quite a market for vintage ones in China and people are grabbing up old stock. They're still made today, but the craftsmanship is nothing like it used to be.

You can check out seals and guesstimate age based on the info here:

http://www.gotheborg.com/marks/20thcenturychina.shtml

I snagged an older one a few months ago; so much nicer than the new ones. I used to enjoy looking at them when I was a kid as they were cheap and commonly used at Chinese restaurants here in HK. I thought they were very pretty, even when I was 10 or 11. Thinking back just reminded me of the evening my dad ordering drunken shrimp for the first time. I remember how much we loved 'em!

I'm actually using a rice grain teapot to drink liu an with aglaia odorata since I have a cold. This particular tea is exceptionally nice and has a really pleasant taste.
Interestingly enough, some families actually pass them down and use them for the Chinese style weddings where the bride and groom are supposed to pour tea for family elders. Aside from that I never see these anymore except for the common lesser quality ones.
They are very common among tea aficionados in HK/Taiwan/Malaysia/China (and in the US too)! Some of the best quality was exported and a friend on Instagram has some really lovely pieces she bought very cheap in Germany.

Jan 28th, '17, 01:00
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Re: NEW! Official Teaware of the Day!

by Hmm » Jan 28th, '17, 01:00

jayinhk wrote:On the rice grain cups...they are quite collectible now. Quite a market for vintage ones in China and people are grabbing up old stock. They're still made today, but the craftsmanship is nothing like it used to be.

You can check out seals and guesstimate age based on the info here:

http://www.gotheborg.com/marks/20thcenturychina.shtml

I snagged an older one a few months ago; so much nicer than the new ones. I used to enjoy looking at them when I was a kid as they were cheap and commonly used at Chinese restaurants here in HK. I thought they were very pretty, even when I was 10 or 11. Thinking back just reminded me of the evening my dad ordering drunken shrimp for the first time. I remember how much we loved 'em!

I'm actually using a rice grain teapot to drink liu an with aglaia odorata since I have a cold. This particular tea is exceptionally nice and has a really pleasant taste.
Generally you don't even need to check the seals to guesstimate the age. If the rice grain pattern cup/bowl is hand painted then in general probably pre-1940s, those might be collectable. If I remember right rice grain patterns first started in the very late Qing period. So we are generally talking about 1890s-1940s. Anything that is printed probably came from the 60s or later. The 60s ones, looking slightly better than the 1970s-80s ones. I still see rice grain pattern bowls all the time from probably the 80s for cheap. Not sure how old vintage means, since everyone has a different definition. I'm using a thick 70s-80s rice pattern gaiwan right now.

I have a 1910-20s rice grain bowl, but have no clue what to do with it in terms of tea. The sides are pretty thin, so I'm doubtful that it would last a long time with hot water. In general if it has thin sides, you can probably also assume it's older as well. The newer ones just look rough in comparison.

This is an example of a earlier rice grain bowl. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Exquisite-Antiq ... Swj85YRJAc

You will notice that the pattern isn't regular at all, because it had to be hand painted.

Jan 28th, '17, 02:32
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Re: NEW! Official Teaware of the Day!

by Bok » Jan 28th, '17, 02:32

I just find them to common and ubiquitous to be of any interest... guess I can't shake the cheap China town connotation they have for me.

After all there's much more interesting teaware around.

Jan 28th, '17, 02:42
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Re: NEW! Official Teaware of the Day!

by Bok » Jan 28th, '17, 02:42

Chinese New Year tea. No access to my teaware so I use a patchwork of things: an old broken spout pot of mine, discarded pitcher that my other half made and some gifted cups from my teacher.

Works a treat. I find that those simple Taiwanese glazed clay teaware works very well for any tea I throw at it.
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Jan 28th, '17, 02:50
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Re: NEW! Official Teaware of the Day!

by kyarazen » Jan 28th, '17, 02:50

Bok wrote:I just find them to common and ubiquitous to be of any interest... guess I can't shake the cheap China town connotation they have for me.

After all there's much more interesting teaware around.
i use a lot of these cups to make incense dough.. :X still do so today

whilst if i'm not wrong the "cups" have been "cornered" in terms of local supply here.. the other dining wares are crazy abundant.. spoons.. bowls.. tureens and what not :D

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Jan 28th, '17, 03:33
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Re: NEW! Official Teaware of the Day!

by jayinhk » Jan 28th, '17, 03:33

I'm using one of the cups as an ashtray on my desk! :D

Interesting, and yes, I guess they started with handpainting and then went to transfers for efficiency. I use an older rice bowl in the mun shou pattern to drink tea in. Very thin porcelain. I even drank organic German beer from it yesterday and it really opened up the flavor!

I can understand why Bok associates them with Chinatown though. The stuff is and was ubiquitous, but you'll find a lot of Chinese drinkers absolutely love them! For me they bring back memories and remind me of my childhood, so there's a nostalgia component to the rice grain and mun shou patterns. Once upon a time collecting standard Factory 1 teapots probably would've been met with derision as they were cheap and readily available. Older rice grain stuff might be worth a packet one day!

Jan 28th, '17, 15:24
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Re: NEW! Official Teaware of the Day!

by Hmm » Jan 28th, '17, 15:24

I guess it's a good thing that I bought several 80s rice grain pattern cups for only a few bucks a couple of years ago haha. I think that's right though, I see the spoons, bowls and plates everywhere, but I don't see cups or gaiwans anymore. Most Chinatown stores in fact don't sell any gaiwans of any kind these days, which is strange.

-------------

Japan started doing transfer printing long before China did. China generally didn't use such tech. until at least the 50s-60s.

Perhaps my paranoia is unfounded, but I'm somewhat scared that mun shou pattern porcelain before the 80s, and even now may have lead in them. With blue and white, I'm less cautious.

As to whether things may be collectable one day... In terms of porcelain, if they are printed, then probably they will never be collectable, but if piece actually required skill to make, then they may become pretty valuable, even if new. There's tons of crudely made Chinese export porcelain that's may be at least 100+ years old, but a small plate is still just worth probably $10 at most.

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Jan 28th, '17, 21:32
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Re: NEW! Official Teaware of the Day!

by jayinhk » Jan 28th, '17, 21:32

Glazed porcelain doesn't appear to be an issue as far as lead, unless it is painted on top. With the mun shou, the paint is only on the outside, so it should be fine. We have a thread here where we discussed the lead concern.

Makes sense about printed porcelain being worth less. Got any pics of the 100+ year old stuff for $10? :shock:

Jan 28th, '17, 23:00
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Re: NEW! Official Teaware of the Day!

by Bok » Jan 28th, '17, 23:00

jayinhk wrote:Glazed porcelain doesn't appear to be an issue as far as lead, unless it is painted on top. With the mun shou, the paint is only on the outside, so it should be fine. We have a thread here where we discussed the lead concern.

Makes sense about printed porcelain being worth less. Got any pics of the 100+ year old stuff for $10? :shock:
Same is true for European porcelain, the prices dropped quite a bit in the last decades. We had some family porcelain sets with at least 100 years of age, grandparents always reminded us how precious and valuable they were (in consequence they were almost never used). When the time came to inherit, it came out that nowadays they're worth almost nothing - unless you have a whole set in impeccable condition...

Which is why I now shamelessly use all those antiques, in the end what's the point of a cup if not to drink from it? Feels shallow to devoid it from its sole real purpose.

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Re: NEW! Official Teaware of the Day!

by victoria3 » Jan 28th, '17, 23:42

Bok wrote:
jayinhk wrote:Glazed porcelain doesn't appear to be an issue as far as lead, unless it is painted on top. With the mun shou, the paint is only on the outside, so it should be fine. We have a thread here where we discussed the lead concern.

Makes sense about printed porcelain being worth less. Got any pics of the 100+ year old stuff for $10? :shock:
Same is true for European porcelain, the prices dropped quite a bit in the last decades. We had some family porcelain sets with at least 100 years of age, grandparents always reminded us how precious and valuable they were (in consequence they were almost never used). When the time came to inherit, it came out that nowadays they're worth almost nothing - unless you have a whole set in impeccable condition...

Which is why I now shamelessly use all those antiques, in the end what's the point of a cup if not to drink from it? Feels shallow to devoid it from its sole real purpose.
Daily, I enjoy using fine porcelain tea bowls which are anywhere from 100-300 years old + contemporary artisanal ware; 1740-1870s Canton cups, 1780s-1820s Edo period Imari bowls, 1870s Meiji period Seifu Yohei III cups.....Akira Satake. Love using them all. Those rice cups on the other hand I have an aesthetic aversion to :?

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Re: NEW! Official Teaware of the Day!

by Bok » Jan 29th, '17, 02:44

victoria3 wrote: ose rice cups on the other hand I have an aesthetic aversion to :?
I feel you. For me they look like how Chinatown sweet and sour pork tastes like... :mrgreen:

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Re: NEW! Official Teaware of the Day!

by victoria3 » Jan 29th, '17, 02:46

Bok wrote:
victoria3 wrote: those rice cups on the other hand I have an aesthetic aversion to :?
I feel you. For me they look like how Chinatown sweet and sour pork tastes like... :mrgreen:
Yes exactly well put.

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Re: NEW! Official Teaware of the Day!

by jayinhk » Jan 29th, '17, 10:36

Again, I see where you guys are coming from, but I grew up in a city that was ALL Chinatown. lol. We grew up with American and Japanese crockery, so the Jingdezhen stuff held a certain mystique since it was SO Chinese. And sweet and sour pork is a common dish in HK among the Chinese and doesn't have that "for foreigners" stigma--check out how fancy it can be here! Interestingly the style used here was brought back to HK by the British. TIL the original Cantonese sweet and sour pork is a completely different thing entirely, and not something I've ever seen!

https://www.timeout.com/hong-kong/resta ... ork-places

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Re: NEW! Official Teaware of the Day!

by Hmm » Jan 29th, '17, 13:41

jayinhk wrote:Glazed porcelain doesn't appear to be an issue as far as lead, unless it is painted on top. With the mun shou, the paint is only on the outside, so it should be fine. We have a thread here where we discussed the lead concern.

Makes sense about printed porcelain being worth less. Got any pics of the 100+ year old stuff for $10? :shock:
True. But the fact that your lips still touch the outside overglazed elements, still makes me paranoid. As stated, I might be overly paranoid about it. If it's underglazed, then usually I don't care about it so much.

But an example of a cheapish plate. Basically what the peasants would have used back in the days. Often carved/stenciled with the family's name, since kitchens were often communal back then.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Chinese ... SwMtxXq4lE

That's definitely probably early 19th century. That's the buy now price, but if you have auctions you probably could get it cheaper.

There's other examples.

Here's a canton export blue & white cloud and rain pattern. They used to use these as a ballast for ships! That's how ubiquitous they were back in the days. I'm fairly confident it's at least 1850s or so by the design. The actual dish itself, since they used to use blanks may be even older, from the 18th century. Funny thing is that you can probably see exact examples of these in George Washington's house, donated by Gen. Robert E. Lee, because I believe he married his granddaughter. The rarer shapes for these though can go for quite a bit more, e.g. a couple hundred if in good condition.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-CHINESE ... Swt5hYflH7

A plate like this one is probably around 100 years old. It has ridiculously thick overglaze enamels. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Chinese ... Sw8aNXGpss

But there's no way the buy it now price is accurate, and definitely if you were to get an actual action price on it, it would be much lower.

But there's cracks, you definitely can get some cheap stuff out there.

I bought this porcelain meat strainer for extremely cheap. http://i.imgur.com/qQZGakc.jpg I just use it as a top for my daily used tea boat being about 13"-14" wide, placed over a very large/wide bowl. It's at least 150 years old, but I don't care, it's cracked already. You actually don't really notice the cracks once objects are on it, and they have all since turned brown with tea stains. Something like this if there wasn't cracks would probably be worth a few hundred USD.
Last edited by Hmm on Jan 29th, '17, 19:15, edited 1 time in total.

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