How many Hagi are enough?

1
27
17%
2-3
23
14%
4-5
13
8%
6-7
5
3%
8-10
3
2%
11 or more
5
3%
Infinity ... always room for one more
83
52%
 
Total votes: 159

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Re: The unofficial/official HAGI topic!

by Tead Off » Nov 11th 15 5:10 pm

Tsubo wrote: What is really Hagiyaki is a matter of perspective, as many residents of Hagi-city do not consider Seigan as a real Hagiyaki artist, what I learned to my surprise on site ...
This is not surprising as I have witnessed a lot of dissent in pottery circles regarding some other potters who have great success yet are not too popular with their peers. Whether it's jealousy or politically motivated, or possibly other potters may not share the taste of someone like Seigan.

Didn't I read that he took his name in honor of Carl Sagan?

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Re: The unofficial/official HAGI topic!

by rdl » Nov 11th 15 5:28 pm

Tsubo,
Very nice collection of work. Thanks for sharing your pieces and your thoughts.
I was interested in Seigan as he began as a boxer, like Tadao Ando, the Japanese architect. I know several people in Hagi who respect him, so maybe as Tead Off states, there are many factors involved. Never heard though how he took his name. I have spent a few afternoons in his studio and it is one of the largest I've seen in Hagi. Like the Henry Ford of pottery. Real or not, I think the question is meaningful, powerful work or not?
But I am very curious when you point out those who are not real Hagi-yaki artists? What exactly do you mean, and where do you get this information? Seigan is a member of the Hagi Association I mentioned above, whereas Shibuya is not, at least at last printing which is a bit outdated. Are you implying traditional vs. contemporary? Or acceptance? I appreciate the discussion.

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Re: The unofficial/official HAGI topic!

by Tsubo » Nov 11th 15 10:24 pm

Tead Off wrote:This is not surprising as I have witnessed a lot of dissent in pottery circles regarding some other potters who have great success yet are not too popular with their peers. Whether it's jealousy or politically motivated, or possibly other potters may not share the taste of someone like Seigan.
rdl wrote:But I am very curious when you point out those who are not real Hagi-yaki artists? What exactly do you mean, and where do you get this information? Seigan is a member of the Hagi Association I mentioned above, whereas Shibuya is not, at least at last printing which is a bit outdated. Are you implying traditional vs. contemporary? Or acceptance? I appreciate the discussion.
It was not the words expressed by other Hagiyaki potters but by Hagi-city inhabitants met on the spot and by vendors ( incidentally, some of them were selling Seigan's works !).

For Deishi Shibuya, i know he is a Hagi artist associate member and was president of the Hagi traditional-handicrafts association ... i don't think it's important, as there is so many associations of that kind in Japan. I don't know if Eiichi Shibuya is member of a potter association, but the prize he win in 2011 opened him access to Uragami Museum collections and placed him at a level well above is grandfather or Seigan.

I have many Seigan's works and i find him innovative ... but whoever went to Hagi-city can't deny that most of its production is bulk order work sold to the curiosity or tourist shops, maybe that's why some would depreciate ?

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Re: The unofficial/official HAGI topic!

by rdl » Nov 12th 15 2:20 am

Tsubo wrote: For Deishi Shibuya, i know he is a Hagi artist associate member and was president of the Hagi traditional-handicrafts association ... i don't think it's important, as there is so many associations of that kind in Japan. I don't know if Eiichi Shibuya is member of a potter association, but the prize he win in 2011 opened him access to Uragami Museum collections and placed him at a level well above is grandfather or Seigan.

I have many Seigan's works and i find him innovative ... but whoever went to Hagi-city can't deny that most of its production is bulk order work sold to the curiosity or tourist shops, maybe that's why some would depreciate ?
I can only say that in my publication neither Shibuya is listed. But that was never my point; I am asking what you mean (or the locals who said it to you) by not being real Hagi-yaki artists? The definition of real or not real is what I would be interested in you clarifying.
As to the bulk production work, yes there is a lot. And why not. Everyone has to make a living and if Hagi is famous for its pottery, then it makes sense it will be sold as tourist mementos. However, it is entirely possible to avoid all that and visit talented artists in their studios and kilns as they all live in and around Hagi. There are also several shops selling works by the best known potters with prices that reflect their achievement.
"maybe that's why some would depreciate ?" I didn't understand this, do you mean in price or in ranking? I haven't noticed prices in Hagi really changing over the years I've been visiting. And certainly not going down.

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Re: The unofficial/official HAGI topic!

by Tead Off » Nov 12th 15 3:29 am

On a personal level, I find Seigan to be a bit garish in his use of glazes. I'm sure the impetus is innovation as Hagiyaki can take on a boring sameness if only looked at from the traditional point of view. This would also appeal more to the western taste of 'oh wow, man, that is cool'. But at the same time, Seigan creates some very lovely and subtler pieces. He reminds me of the Mino potter Kato Eichi in the sense that his colors jump out at you in a slightly unnatural way. But, this appeals to some and some may call it 'commercial'.

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Re: The unofficial/official HAGI topic!

by ethan » Nov 12th 15 7:28 am

Art is trouble. One thinks people loaning their collections or donating them is generosity; however, it also might also be due to other emotions. Imagine having a huge painting of Jackson Pollock on one's wall. Might encourage insanity. There are many times I feel like drinking my tea in glass or a solid colored vessel. I am not always ready for beauty etc. Moods can make the simple seem dull or the boldly glazed seem garish. I think ceramics are particularly difficult to "rate".

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Re: The unofficial/official HAGI topic!

by Fuut » Nov 12th 15 3:22 pm

Discussing what is art is pointless. Like 9 cans of soup are art.

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Re: The unofficial/official HAGI topic!

by rdl » Nov 12th 15 3:47 pm

I don't know if it is ever pointless to use our highly evolved brain to think deeply, discuss respectfully and appreciate immensely the myriad complexities of our world. Whether it be the heavens or what's in a teacup.

What is interesting about Hagi is that the old traditions had fallen into disuse for some time before the last century and the Hagiyaki revival. So what we see today is rather new in a sense, and reinventing itself with the work of mostly younger artists.

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Re: The unofficial/official HAGI topic!

by Tsubo » Nov 12th 15 5:59 pm

rdl wrote:"maybe that's why some would depreciate ?" I didn't understand this, do you mean in price or in ranking? I haven't noticed prices in Hagi really changing over the years I've been visiting. And certainly not going down.
I mean Seigan produces many bulk work, so maybe this is why some depreciate his work.
rdl wrote:I am asking what you mean (or the locals who said it to you) by not being real Hagi-yaki artists? The definition of real or not real is what I would be interested in you clarifying.
This point was more clear : such potters don't use traditional glazes and do not use wood firing. It's perhaps a weird argument, but the Japanese approach of pottery seems different from ours.

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Re: The unofficial/official HAGI topic!

by rdl » Nov 12th 15 6:19 pm

Tsubo wrote:
rdl wrote:"maybe that's why some would depreciate ?" I didn't understand this, do you mean in price or in ranking? I haven't noticed prices in Hagi really changing over the years I've been visiting. And certainly not going down.
I mean Seigan produces many bulk work, so maybe this is why some depreciate his work.
rdl wrote:I am asking what you mean (or the locals who said it to you) by not being real Hagi-yaki artists? The definition of real or not real is what I would be interested in you clarifying.
This point was more clear : such potters don't use traditional glazes and do not use wood firing. It's perhaps a weird argument, but the Japanese approach of pottery seems different from ours.
1) I see. A long established habit. Unfortunately.

2) It is clear now. Real/not real in the sense of traditional. But Seigan strays far less than Miwa Kyusetsu XII. Yet the last exhibition hall in the Hagi Uragami Museum has his and similar Hagiyaki. Displayed beautifully in my opinion.

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Re: The unofficial/official HAGI topic!

by Tsubo » Nov 12th 15 7:21 pm

from my point of view, this will not prevent me from buying some more Seigan's pieces :lol:

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Re: The unofficial/official HAGI topic!

by rdl » Nov 12th 15 7:42 pm

Tsubo wrote:from my point of view, this will not prevent me from buying some more Seigan's pieces :lol:
If I implied one shouldn't purchase his work, or any work for that matter, then I need to look back and see how that came about. It's encouraging to see whatever pieces and comments appear in this topic. What I would like to imply is a post with a photo, and one-word comment replies, I feel, belongs in the Show Off Your Pots and Cups topic. There is lots of knowledge out there that I look for in here. So please keep it coming.

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Re: The unofficial/official HAGI topic!

by Tead Off » Nov 13th 15 4:54 am

rdl wrote:But Seigan strays far less than Miwa Kyusetsu XII. Yet the last exhibition hall in the Hagi Uragami Museum has his and similar Hagiyaki. Displayed beautifully in my opinion.
Which Miwa is XII? There is a Kyusetsu and a Kyuyuki. Any photos illustrating what you are referring to?

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Re: The unofficial/official HAGI topic!

by rdl » Nov 13th 15 11:11 am

Tead Off wrote:
rdl wrote:But Seigan strays far less than Miwa Kyusetsu XII. Yet the last exhibition hall in the Hagi Uragami Museum has his and similar Hagiyaki. Displayed beautifully in my opinion.
Which Miwa is XII? There is a Kyusetsu and a Kyuyuki. Any photos illustrating what you are referring to?
I have no photos that I took, but here are two links, one to the Cheongju International Craft Biennale 2013 (scroll down near the bottom of page)
http://www.collabo-x.com/cheongju-inter ... %EC%A7%80/
and Robert Yellin:
http://www.e-yakimono.net/html/miwa-kyu ... -2003.html
His work is very much on view in various places in Hagi. They don't seem to shy away from him, maverick or not.
By the way, this is the man who is the President, Hagi Association of Ceramic Art.

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Re: The unofficial/official HAGI topic!

by Tead Off » Nov 13th 15 4:14 pm

rdl wrote:
Tead Off wrote:
rdl wrote:But Seigan strays far less than Miwa Kyusetsu XII. Yet the last exhibition hall in the Hagi Uragami Museum has his and similar Hagiyaki. Displayed beautifully in my opinion.
Which Miwa is XII? There is a Kyusetsu and a Kyuyuki. Any photos illustrating what you are referring to?
I have no photos that I took, but here are two links, one to the Cheongju International Craft Biennale 2013 (scroll down near the bottom of page)
http://www.collabo-x.com/cheongju-inter ... %EC%A7%80/
and Robert Yellin:
http://www.e-yakimono.net/html/miwa-kyu ... -2003.html
His work is very much on view in various places in Hagi. They don't seem to shy away from him, maverick or not.
By the way, this is the man who is the President, Hagi Association of Ceramic Art.
This guy needs to change his diet. :lol: :lol: :lol: