Kyusu Kwestion

[tortoise]

I think I have this figured out, but I'm hoping someone can correct me if I'm off the mark.

When shopping kyusu-s, you come across the kiln name such as tokoname, banko, hagi, etc. That kiln name, however, may not give any indication as to the type of clay that is used to create the piece. Is that right?

Banko-yaki, such as made by the popular Tachi Masaki, is not representative of all banko-yaki, and that famous purple clay is not necessarily what you should expect from any piece fired in that kiln.

Hagi-yaki seems to have more consistency regarding the base clay (though glazes vary), but tokoname seems to be not always the same clay type.

I know that firing techniques effect color. Is that why banko and tokoname-yaki can look so different; or is it that names such as "banko" and "tokoname" only refer to the kiln and may or may not say anything about the material?

[Chip]

These names do not refer to kilns necessarily. Originally perhaps, but now there are usually multiple kilns.

Today names like Hagi and Tokoname and Bizen and Shigaraki refer to cities where the wears are hopefully made using unique clays from those areas from various kilns in those cities. These are 4 of the original 6 most famous kilns of Japan. The clays, styles, glazes, etc are often unique to the city.

Banko is not a city but seems to refer to banko clay. Hopefully they should be made with banko clays ... but there are real cheap banko that are likely not made with the best clay and generally look poorly made at best.

[David R.]

This post on Hojo's website has a lot of info. Maybe it can answer some of your questions.

[Chip]

Good article! Thanks David.

There are some discrepancies when going from site to site and trying to discern information, it can get confusing to say the least.

[tortoise]

Ok, I'm glad I posted. I've read hojo's site about 10 times and it is helpful to an exten\.

This houhin is said to be banko-yaki, yet it looks nothing like the deep purple color that most banko display. Maybe it's glazed? I've seen other "banko-yaki' that do not necessarily look poorly made, but they aren't purple. Is this firing? I'm not talking about sketchy vendors either.
http://www.o-cha.com/shoboridashi-teapot.html

[Chip]

They are glazed, thus no exposed clay to reveal the colors you might expect.

[JBaymore]

Part of the issue with "identification" comes with the core nature of the Japanese language. In a sentence, 窯 can mean a single furnace (kiln) for firing pottery, all of the multiple furnaces for firing pottery located at this particular pottery site, all of the furnaces for firing pottery in this section of a a larger town or city, or all of the production from all of the kilns of all of the potters of this whole town.

There is typically no plural in Japanese.... "kiln" and "kilns" is figured out from general context of the sentence and conversation.

Then you have the issue that sometimes the colloquial name of the "kiln" actually is the name of the place the work is/was shipped out of to the country / world. Hence you get stuff like Arita and Karatsu wares....which were produced from multiple individual pottery production centers by countless potters and shipped out of common ports.

Then there is also the confusion that sometimes arises because of older traditions and histories. For a long time work produced in Mino ("sister city" to Seto) was identified as coming from the more famous location of Seto. Historically, Seto was so famous that the term "setomono" (things from Seto) is the word for "pottery" in Eastern Japan.

A great example of the extreme at the moment is to look at Mashiko-yaki. While at one time (pre-Hamada Shoji days) there was a very distinct "Mashiko-style" of work prduced, today the diversity of the work produced by Japanese and expatriate potters in Mashiko belies definitive description. You'll find stuff being produced in Mashiko that looks like Shino-yaki, Bizen-yaki, Shigaraki-yaki, Banko-yaki, Tokoname-taki, Arita-yaki, and so on. It is all technically from the Mashiko kilns...... potteries located in the Town of Mashiko...... but there is no common "style" anymore. It is all Mashiko-yaki.... but you couldn't necessarily tell that by looking at the piece of work.

On the other hand........ one of the "purest" and readily identifiable potteries currently produced in Japan is the work coming out of Onda Sarayama. Onda-yaki is a very small and traditional production location where the number of families that are allowed to produce work is tightly controlled (I think 11 families at the moment). Onta (alternate pronunciation) is probably the closes to Mingei that exists today, and the "style" of work is still very recognizable. All work from the Onta Kilns ......looks like and truly IS Onta-yaki.

best,

.................john

[tortoise]

They are glazed, thus no exposed clay to reveal the colors you might expect.

And can I conclude that, with glazed banko, all bets are off for the fabulous flavor enhancing qualities of the purple clay?

John, thanks for your response. I guess I pulled the proverbial thread, now the whole thing is coming unravelled.

I have no recourse but to spend some money.

[Chip]

They are glazed, thus no exposed clay to reveal the colors you might expect.

And can I conclude that, with glazed banko, all bets are off for the fabulous flavor enhancing qualities of the purple clay?

With good gyokuro, who needs magic enhancing clay? Throw some Kame gyo in there, you will see what I mean.

[edkrueger]

I would be skeptical about the magic clay. People have been making tea in Shudei, Hagi, Bizen, Porcelain, Daisen, glazed Banko etc. clays for a very long time with good results. This unglazed Banko is very new. I personally find Bizen to change the flavor the most. For gyokuro, however, I wish I had a nice porcelain set.

[olivierco]

With good gyokuro, who needs magic enhancing clay?

+1

[tortoise]

With good gyokuro, who needs magic enhancing clay?

+1

Thanks for that perspective!

[Chip]

With good gyokuro, who needs magic enhancing clay?

+1

Thanks for that perspective!

... having said that, and not owning a banko ... I do look at them as much as anyone and will add a good one at some point. Do I absolutely need one to enjoy sencha and gyokuro, absolutely not.

[Tead Off]

With good gyokuro, who needs magic enhancing clay?

+1

Thanks for that perspective!

... having said that, and not owning a banko ... I do look at them as much as anyone and will add a good one at some point. Do I absolutely need one to enjoy sencha and gyokuro, absolutely not.

Absolutely no way of knowing what the difference would be. Don't you absolutely agree?

[Chip]

Absolutely no way of knowing what the difference would be. Don't you absolutely agree?

I am absolutely open minded.

However, sweetening the water, etc does not absolutely improve tea taste.

But when it comes to tea and teaware, I am absolultely open minded. Sooo, the Hojo god has permission to send me a banko and a shigaraki for open minded comparisons ... absolutely!