American tea company based in Yunnan?

[Varu]

Hi,

I heard some time ago that some Americans were going to go to Yunnan to start an organic tea company. It occurs to me that this is a novel idea because Chinese complain about Pu'erh having too much pesticides or being faked.

However I never got the name of that company nor names of the people involved.

So, does anyone know of any such company, American or otherwise, based in Yunnan exports Pu'erh that is organic, or the European equivalents Bio and Demeter?

Thanks.

[shogun89]

hmmm, interesting. I have not heard anything on this, but am quite interested to learn anything anyone has about it. . .

[Rich Perry]

It could be Andao

[wyardley]

Andao and Yunnan Sourcing are both run by Americans based in Yunnan, and both sell some teas which claim to be organically produced (some with certification, some without). There are probably several other companies along the same lines, and of course there's Nadacha (I believe he's Irish, and spends at least some of his time there). Most of these people know each other or have some sort of connection, amicable or not.

Even if the owners of the company are American (or foreign in general), I don't know if you should feel any more sure that the products are legitimately organic. They still have to deal with the same farmers and wholesalers, and in many cases, may even have a harder time communicating or negotiating due to language and cultural barriers.

The OP could be thinking about DLH also, though he's based in the US, not in Yunnan, and I don't believe he is directly involved in the running of the company he founded anymore. See
http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?p=104925

A lot of producers talk a good game about their direct connection with the farmers, or their supervision of the whole process. It doesn't take a genius to tell that most of this is BS / marketing hype. The people who are selling tea are, in almost all cases, NOT there every single day watching what the farmer does. They're doing their business and trying to buy / sell product (and I'm not saying that's a bad thing... just saying).

I think that certifications are a mixed bag, and that at some point, you have to trust how the tea tastes, how the leaves look, and how the tea makes your body feel. I don't believe the exaggerated claims of some people that they can detect pesticides most (or all) of the time by smelling the dry tea leaves, or even by tasting the tea, but generally, I think it's a good goal to (as best as possible) try to find products made by small farmers who are doing the Right Thing and using traditional farming methods. Probably you will end up getting some tea that has pesticides in it in the process, and that's really probably not the worst thing in the world either in the grand scheme of things...

I also think that if you seek out tea that has government "organic" certification, you will end up spending more money, and you may even end up with inferior tea. On top of that, you still don't really have that great a guarantee that your tea was actually organically grown.

[Varu]

Very interesting. I'll check out these companies.

But now I wonder, is there anywhere else in the world to where the Puerh tea plants specifically have been transplanted, such that there is more control over what the farmers do?

[wyardley]

China has an organic standard, however, it is not the same as Eu standards. There is a "qs certification" (a blue "s" on the packages), and there is ECOCERT as well (Their organic certification)

I could be wrong, but I don't think the S has anything directly to do with farming practices or organic certification... I think it's a more general certification required of food products.

See also:
http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?p=100968#100968

I think there are some testing requirements to at least ensure that pesticide residue and contaminants are at or below the amounts allowed. Given recent scandals, I imagine China will be increasing their efforts in terms of food testing and product safety.

I have no direct knowledge of this... only rumors, so please take this with a big grain of salt, but I have heard from multiple sources that there is quite a bit of corruption in the organic certification process in China, so one issue with China's organic standards (as well as, to a lesser extent, products that are grown in China but USDA / EU certified Organic) is that the consumer may have some doubt as to whether the product is really what it claims to be. Also, the USDA requirements are stricter than some others about how long the land must be free of certain pesticides before the product can be sold as organic instead of transitional.

I would think there might be some issues when US based merchants (i.e., those whose main operations run out of the US) sell Chinese tea as organically grown when it's not USDA certified, but not 100% sure about that. I can certainly think of a number of merchants who sell "organically grown" tea without showing any proof of certification.

There have also been some interesting threads on RFDT about pollution. A lot of the tea-producing areas in China are somewhat rural / isolated, but even so, while you can control what you use to fertilize the soil and irrigate the crops, you can't control the rain that falls from above, the air, or pollution coming through streams or other water sources.

More generally, there are other issues that have been raised with blindly buying stuff because it's "organically grown". For one thing, it often raises the bar for entry for really small scale producers, a lot of whom are the people who are following the principles behind organic farming the *most* closely in spirit. At the same time, it's not enough to just take someone at their word when they say they don't use pesticides on their crops.

Personally, I drink the stuff. I don't honestly spend a lot of time worrying about what pesticides may or may not be in it, and given the amount of pesticides and other junk in the food we eat and the water we drink, I think there are probably bigger things for me to worry about than the (relatively) small amounts of tea I consume. I try to do what I can to make educated guesses about which teas are safe to drink, and I try to find out what information I can, but it's hard enough to find good tea without worrying about whether it's certified organic or not.

Just my $0.03

[wyardley]

But now I wonder, is there anywhere else in the world to where the Puerh tea plants specifically have been transplanted, such that there is more control over what the farmers do?

As TomVerlain says, Pu'er tea must properly be from Yunnan. There is tea grown from the same plant in border areas which is sold as pu'er, and there were even rumors (at the height of the pu'er craze) that green tea from outside Yunnan, and from a different varietal was brought in and mixed in.

The varietal that pu'er tea comes from is considered to be the "original" tea plant, and is also somewhat different from most other varietals commonly grown for tea these days. To the best of my knowledge, it isn't grown in large quantities outside of Yunnan and the areas near the border of Laos, Vietnam, Burma.

If you are really intent on obtaining certified organic pu'er tea, the major factories (which have at least some incentive not to lie to the public) offer some certified organic product. Though not USDA certified, I've heard a lot of good things about this tea:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Haiwan-Certified-Or ... 1|294%3A30
I have a cake or two of it myself.

Personally, though, if I'm going to pay that premium, I'd rather spend the money on tea from some of the reputable smaller producers who are seeking out old tree or wild / semi-wild leaf, and take my chances that I'm getting what the seller is claiming. With buying tea, you always have to straddle the line between (justified) skepticism and a little bit of hopeful optimism. And just try and trust your senses.

While lack of bug bites in and of itself isn't necessarily a giveaway that pesticides are being used, I do like to see a bug bite here and there when I'm looking at my tea leaves.

[coloradopu]

could someone please sticky this topic

[tea soho]

Hi Wyardley,

You did claim some points on the Puer tea issues. Here are some of my points from China.

1. during Puer craze period, it is ture some other middle or small leaves from Sichuan, Hunan, Guangxi, Hubei province,(they all used to make the cooked compressed tea, ripe Puer recipes are borrowed from these cooked compressed teas), even some similiar big leaves Puer tea from nearby boarders of Laos. But the point is, Laoist did not know how to make a perfect Puer tea, their making techniques are quite poor, so the taste, shape are quite bad.

2) Organic Puer tea. I have been to Yunnan big trees areas, which I think is quite remote and quite organic. I can see many ramifications on the trees, which can quite explain the surroundings. So of course, teas from these, there is no need any organic certificates.
But big Puer factories, since it has the quanities requirements, which is hard to guarantee the leaves are all from these remote big tress. So many of them are bush tea leaves. But anyway, i think they do have some organic certificates.

3) organic certificates in China. Well, no matter it is domestic organic certificates or overseas certificates, it has changed its orginal faces in China. Certificates markets in China are in a mess. So normally i only trust my taste, my feeling to this tea.

Besides, for drinking tea, if it does contian some pesticides, only drinking the water, the persticides wont be infused out. Probably eating the tea leaves need to be very careful. Since many so-called premium Japaese Matcha are from China, probably you need to be more careful when drinking Matcha.

4)As to many US tea sellers did not even know how farmers produce Puer tea or stay there to supervise the tea making. Probably most of them dont, since time limitaion in China or others, but it is true that my friend, in Canada, who has just into tea business there, did stay in Yunnan, Zhejiang to supervise the whole tea making process. We plan to go this fall again to supervise the Puer making process in our standard. Later, i will upload these pics for guys to share.

[xuancheng]

...Since many so-called premium Japaese Matcha are from China, probably you need to be more careful when drinking Matcha.

I would take issue with any such claim. The 'premium' Chinese produced Matcha that I have tried was comparable to cooking grade matcha.

[edkrueger]

...Since many so-called premium Japaese Matcha are from China, probably you need to be more careful when drinking Matcha.

I would take issue with any such claim. The 'premium' Chinese produced Matcha that I have tried was comparable to cooking grade matcha.

There is a loss of credibility that comes with statements like that.

[Chinese Kung Fu Tea Art]

China has an organic standard, however, it is not the same as Eu standards. There is a "qs certification" (a blue "s" on the packages), and there is ECOCERT as well (Their organic certification)[/quote]


"QS certification", is Quility Safe!

You normally get this on all food product in China!
Even the on the Toxic Milk Powder for Baby!!

For the tea, I suggest brew all tea at 100c, nothing is 100% safe to eat or drink in these days!

[edkrueger]

Brewing at boiling will do absolutely nothing. Most bacteria and viruses are killed at 60-80c or less.