Shincha in a Yixing

[Rainy-Day]

Yes, that's right. Shincha in a Yixing. I'm a newbie to shincha and I wasn't sure I'd like it that much so I did not order a Kyusu. After a month of experimentation I'm happy to say I really love shincha from o-cha.com! The two types I got were Fukamushi Supereme and Yutaka Midori. To be honest, I can't really tell much difference between the two, I think YM is a bit sweeter? I haven't tried them side by side, though.

Anyway, I've been using an ~7oz light brown yixing and it's working out great. To my surprise, it works much better than my usual method of two large glass pots. I'm particularly surprised since no other green or white tea works well for me in a yixing.

I get best results when I use about half a tsp and brew for 3 minutes. I also tried using one heaping tsp and make three steeps, one for a minute, the second one for half a minute and the third one for 3 min - that also works well but the first method yields a more consistent and slightly better brew.

I was wondering if someone who has a good kyusu can do a bit of experimentin' with a yixing and tell me if kyusu is about the same, a little better, or much better -- because I don't really like side handle pots aesthetically and there's not much choice in kyusus with overhand handle; if kyusu is indeed making better tea I'll get one anyway but if not, I'll be happy with the yixing.

By the way, Chip: thanks so much for helping me with my first buy of Shincha, I'm very happy with the discovery. I love how consistent sencha is compared to chinese greens. One thing I still kind of like in chinese ones is that they often have a strong but rich and complex aroma and the taste can be more subtle, the way I think about it is that sencha is the perfect tea for work while chinese greens are ideal at the end of day when I'm reading a book or just looking at the clouds..

By the way, is there a Japanese green that has really large, whole leafs similar to some high grade chinese greens?

Is there a japanese white tea? An oolong? I guess not, but I'm curious if they ever experimented with that and decided against them?

[Chip]

Glad I was able to help you!

In terms of sex appeal, the kyusu wins hands down. Well, seriously, tea is almost as much a state of mind as it is taste, smell ... is it not? I would personally have an aversion to using a Yixing for sencha, or should I say so much more a desire to use a kyusu.

Picking the right kyusu for each sencha session is part of my daily tea ritual. I first pick the tea, then the kyusu, then right cup.

Aside from that, the screen is generally much better in a kyusu, but there are exceptions I am sure. Brewing Fukamushi in a Yixing would likely result in a LOT of leaf in one's cup.

[Rainy-Day]

My yixing happens to have a rather fine clay 'screen', so I end up with about the same (small) amount of leaf for both YM and Fukamushi. I was really lucky with this yixing being such a nice fit for senchas both in terms of size and screen, because I only have two yixing pots, and if both were unsuitable, I think I would probably assume sencha just isn't in my taste and not order again for a long time! So, yay for this yixing..

[Chip]

I would suggest trying a kyusu at some point. I guess the important thing is to brew as you like and like as you brew!

[Maitre_Tea]

I tried this once actually, while I was trying to find out what tea to dedicate my duan ni yixing to. I had read from Tea Masters(http://teamasters.blogspot.com/2008/05/ ... ctice.html and one other source that duan ni can be a good fit with this clay, so I decided to be a heretic.

I brewed some Organic Uji Sencha from O-Cha in my kyusu, and I poured part of the infusion into my pre-heated Yixing (to account for temperature differences and all). I let it sit around in my Yixing for about a minute or so before pouring it out into a different fair cup. I should've used a Gaiwan per Michael's (from the Tea Gallery) instructions, but I was testing to see if my teapot could produce better results than my kyusu...

The results? I felt that my kyusu was able to represent the flavors of the tea much better than my Yixing. I suspected that the Duan Ni, which tends to round out the flavors of tea, "stole" a little too much of the tea's flavor. Maybe Tea Master's suggestions apply to Chinese/Taiwanese green teas. Even though I like to think that kyusu are the best for brewing Japanese teas, since they were developed to maximize the flavors of green tea, if you find that you have good results with Yixing, go with it. I think denser/high-fired clays might complement the flavors of a green tea, since they will maximize flavor. I also think thin walls and a ball-shaped pot might help as well.

[depravitea]

I've very new to Japanese green teas, so please, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm trying to learn.
I was under the impression that Yutaka Midori was a sencha, not a shincha? Can it be both depending on when the Yutaka Midori is picked?
Not trying to correct anyone here, just trying to learn.

[Chip]

I've very new to Japanese green tea, so lease, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm trying to learn.
I was under the impression that Yutaka Midori was a sencha, not a shincha? Can it be both depending on when the Yutaka Midori is picked?
Not trying to correct anyone here, just trying to learn.

Very good question actually.

Shincha is simply new harvest tea, first flush that has been fully processed and packaged for resale. Sometimes shincha will have a higher moisture content than its ichibancha counterpart. Shincha should only be available through Julyish.

After this time, supplies should be transferred over to ichibancha, which is also first flush, but it has been processed all the way up to but prior to final sorting. It is cold stored in this state in large air tight bales until it is needed to fill demand. At this time it goes through final sorting and packaging.

Yutaka Midori is first offered as shincha in the Spring. Later it is offered as ichibancha. Both are first flush, but it is a matter of when you buy it will determine whether it is shincha or ichibancha.

Both are SENCHA. Shincha and ichibancha are more designations indicating harvest and processing methods. If someone is selling shincha in September, walk away. Either this vendor is selling shincha out of season, or does not know what they are talking about. Sometimes a vendor will erroneously interchange the terms shincha and ichibancha.

Storing as ichibancha will assure virtually fresh first flush tea availability all the way up to the next harvest ...

[Tead Off]

Shincha is simply new harvest tea, first flush that has been fully processed and packaged for resale. Sometimes shincha will have a higher moisture content than its ichibancha counterpart. Shincha should only be available through Julyish.

After this time, supplies should be transferred over to ichibancha, which is also first flush, but it has been processed all the way up to but prior to final sorting. It is cold stored in this state in large air tight bales until it is needed to fill demand. At this time it goes through final sorting and packaging.

Yutaka Midori is first offered as shincha in the Spring. Later it is offered as ichibancha. Both are first flush, but it is a matter of when you buy it will determine whether it is shincha or ichibancha.

Both are SENCHA. Shincha and ichibancha are more designations indicating harvest and processing methods. If someone is selling shincha in September, walk away. Either this vendor is selling shincha out of season, or does not know what they are talking about. Sometimes a vendor will erroneously interchange the terms shincha and ichibancha.

Storing as ichibancha will assure virtually fresh first flush tea availability all the way up to the next harvest ...

Would there be any difference in flavor between a Shincha and an Ichibancha? And, price difference?

[depravitea]

I've very new to Japanese green tea, so lease, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm trying to learn.
I was under the impression that Yutaka Midori was a sencha, not a shincha? Can it be both depending on when the Yutaka Midori is picked?
Not trying to correct anyone here, just trying to learn.

Very good question actually.

Shincha is simply new harvest tea, first flush that has been fully processed and packaged for resale. Sometimes shincha will have a higher moisture content than its ichibancha counterpart. Shincha should only be available through Julyish.

After this time, supplies should be transferred over to ichibancha, which is also first flush, but it has been processed all the way up to but prior to final sorting. It is cold stored in this state in large air tight bales until it is needed to fill demand. At this time it goes through final sorting and packaging.

Yutaka Midori is first offered as shincha in the Spring. Later it is offered as ichibancha. Both are first flush, but it is a matter of when you buy it will determine whether it is shincha or ichibancha.

Both are SENCHA. Shincha and ichibancha are more designations indicating harvest and processing methods. If someone is selling shincha in September, walk away. Either this vendor is selling shincha out of season, or does not know what they are talking about. Sometimes a vendor will erroneously interchange the terms shincha and ichibancha.

Storing as ichibancha will assure virtually fresh first flush tea availability all the way up to the next harvest ...

That is EXACTLY what I was looking for. I appreciate you taking the time to type that all out. I'm ready for the quiz!

Tead Off had a good question as well, pertaining to any difference in flavor between a Shincha and an Ichibancha?
What's your opinion?
I'm guessing the cold storage changes the leaf slightly??

[Chip]

Would there be any difference in flavor between a Shincha and an Ichibancha? And, price difference?

Sometimes yes and sometimes no. Shincha can be a bit more intense.

The overal flavor profile should not be substantially different however.

This does not include special edition shincha however that can be quite different.

Prices can be the same, though special editions are frequently at a premium price. Yutaka Midori from O-Cha is the same price for shincha and ichibancha.

[entropyembrace]

With all respect for attempting to scientifically verify the merits of different brewing vessels, Maitre_tea, I don't think that brewing first in another vessel (even a neutral one like a gaiwan) and then pouring into the vessel to be tested is going to be an accurate representation of how the pot will perform during daily use since the tea would be brewed directly in the pot.

If we're to make a fair comparison the best would be to take the two pots we want to compare, use precisely the same weight of leaves, precisely the same temperature of water and infusion times as well. The pots will have to both be the same volume or the brewing parameters will change too much...and then the tea should be drank side by side in identical cups.

Even that has problems...with different pot materials is using the exact same parameters really ideal? And it should really be done as a double blind trial with several tasters...

So as you can see tea is extremely difficult to pin down scientifically, the best thing I'm sure would be just to try it both ways brewing as you would to drink the tea on a daily basis and decide which you like best from there...or back to the original post...if you think sincha in a yixing is delicious...sure why not?

[Maitre_Tea]

With all respect for attempting to scientifically verify the merits of different brewing vessels, Maitre_tea, I don't think that brewing first in another vessel (even a neutral one like a gaiwan) and then pouring into the vessel to be tested is going to be an accurate representation of how the pot will perform during daily use since the tea would be brewed directly in the pot.

If we're to make a fair comparison the best would be to take the two pots we want to compare, use precisely the same weight of leaves, precisely the same temperature of water and infusion times as well. The pots will have to both be the same volume or the brewing parameters will change too much...and then the tea should be drank side by side in identical cups.

Even that has problems...with different pot materials is using the exact same parameters really ideal? And it should really be done as a double blind trial with several tasters...

So as you can see tea is extremely difficult to pin down scientifically, the best thing I'm sure would be just to try it both ways brewing as you would to drink the tea on a daily basis and decide which you like best from there...or back to the original post...if you think sincha in a yixing is delicious...sure why not?

My method was anything but "scientific". I could’ve just brewed my Sencha in the Yixing, but I think by doing it the way I did I probably eliminated a lot of the parameters, like the vessel volume, vessel differences, etc. And I probably saved more time with my short-cut method. I think by doing it the way The Tea Gallery suggested, you’re testing the differences in taste between Yixing and Gaiwan (or whatever other vessel). I think the next time I order from The Tea Gallery, I’m going to ask them why you don’t just brew in two separate vessels. They’re amazing, so I’m sure they’ll have an explanation/reason that I couldn’t think of on my own.

There have been venomous discussions over science and tea, especially when it comes to controversial topics like clay composition of teapots. I think it’s best that you’re satisfied with your personal results, and you try your best to be as objective as possible. Granted, completely eliminating bias in scientific inquiries is just impossible, and it’s also too much work with my limited time. Maybe when I’m retired I can spend all my time exploring the nuances of clay composition, water quality, etc. *sigh* It sucks to be a poor college graduate…

[AdamMY]

With all respect for attempting to scientifically verify the merits of different brewing vessels, Maitre_tea, I don't think that brewing first in another vessel (even a neutral one like a gaiwan) and then pouring into the vessel to be tested is going to be an accurate representation of how the pot will perform during daily use since the tea would be brewed directly in the pot.

It has been explained to me that a great way to test what a Yixing will work with, as sometimes certain pots just do not work with certain teas. Is to first use a very neutral vessel such as a Gaiwan, brew two or three infusions pouring those into a large faircup. Then Fill up the yixing you wish to test, with half, and leave the other half for comparison.

If you do wish to get really close to the temperatures you would be brewing at you could always pour boiling water over the outside of the pot for quite some time, but I feel that should be unnecessary, as it is not identical to brewing in the pot, and certain things such as size and shape of pot vs. the type of tea you want brew are not taken into account.

But You should at least get an idea of seeing if the pot has any thing to contribute to the tea, as in a rounding effect.

[Tead Off]

With all respect for attempting to scientifically verify the merits of different brewing vessels, Maitre_tea, I don't think that brewing first in another vessel (even a neutral one like a gaiwan) and then pouring into the vessel to be tested is going to be an accurate representation of how the pot will perform during daily use since the tea would be brewed directly in the pot.

It has been explained to me that a great way to test what a Yixing will work with, as sometimes certain pots just do not work with certain teas. Is to first use a very neutral vessel such as a Gaiwan, brew two or three infusions pouring those into a large faircup. Then Fill up the yixing you wish to test, with half, and leave the other half for comparison.

If you do wish to get really close to the temperatures you would be brewing at you could always pour boiling water over the outside of the pot for quite some time, but I feel that should be unnecessary, as it is not identical to brewing in the pot, and certain things such as size and shape of pot vs. the type of tea you want brew are not taken into account.

But You should at least get an idea of seeing if the pot has any thing to contribute to the tea, as in a rounding effect.

Adam, this test works even better if you have 2 or more pots that you are pouring the brewed tea into. In this way, you see the difference between 2 clay pots such as a Tokoname, a yixing, and, the original porcelain brewed tea. And, make sure that the cups that the tea is poured into from the different vessels are porcelain so they don't add anything else to the result. I have done this many times and it works.

[Maitre_Tea]

Honestly, I feel that this test only really works when you're comparing between three vessels or more. From the experiments I've done so far, my Yixing have always improved the taste of teas (with a few certain exceptions like with Shincha), so it's kinda pointless. But when you compare Yixing to Yixing though, that's when you can get really good results.