Quick question about brewing...

[teaforthetillerman]

I am sure this question has been addressed before and is out there somewhere on the forum, but...

I like to have some green tea after lunch (right now I am drinking Adagio's White Monkey, very good if I might add) but notice that it is slightly bitter. I only have access to a hot water dispensar. My question is...Is it the steeping time (I usually do about 2:45 to 3 minutes) or is it the temperture of the water the makes it bitter? or is a combination of both?

I know this seems like a simple question, but I am new to tea so I would appreciate any help.

Thanks in advance!

[Chip]

Could be one or the other or both.

I would first lower the temp if you can. Pour the water into another vessel first, then into your brewing vessel. This usually lowers the temp by 10-15* F. The longer you keep it in the first vessel, the lower the temp will be.

Also, I rarely brew longer than 2 minutes for a green. But this will depend on how much leaf you are actually using.

[debunix]

I rarely brew green teas without a thermometer, because temperature seems to be more important than time in controlling the bitterness, although both are important.

With a dedicated and consistent hot water source, you may not need a thermometer every time, but getting hold of a good one at least one time can really help to figure out how hot the water is directly out of the tap, and how long it takes to cool to an acceptable temperature for brewing in your particular setup.

I like to stick to 160-165 degrees for sencha, 160-175 for dragon well, and I have a nice yunnan Mao Feng from norbu that does well up to 185 degrees.

I brew all of these with 2-3 infusions and much shorter than your 2-3 minutes. Try tasting the tea a sip at 30 seconds, 60 seconds, 90 seconds, etc just to get a feeling for how it is progressing. You might even set up a few tiny tasting cups or paper cups in advance so you can grab those samples during a brewing and sip and compare them with less than frantic speed.

[teaforthetillerman]

Wow...thanks for the speedy reply. Sure do appreciate it. I will definately try those recommendations. One more quick follow up...stainless steel thermos or glass thermos? Does the stainless steel effect taste?

Thanks again!

[LauraW]

I haven't found a significant difference between stainless steel and glass. Some people will probably say yes, there is, but I don't notice it. Plastic though, I do notice a slight difference. Not enough to make me stop drinking it, mind you, but it does slightly alter the flavor (I think).

[Oni]

I had a revelation a while ago. I am drinking Bi Luo Chun for a week now, I am puting in the leaves to a full 200 ml cup, when the water reaches 75 C (they sink don`t swin, other leaves swim so be careful), if I brew it in a gaiwan and stir the leaves after a minute, in max a minute I should decant to cups, or start drinking it down, BUT if I drink it from a tall glass cup, and I do not bother the leaves in the cup, no shaking no stiring, the tea soup is clear and sweet no hint of bitterness, even after 8 minutes, beacause the tea leaves inthe bottom hold the concentrated tea broth, and when I drink it down to 1/3rd or 1/4 th of the cup when I refill (I do with boiling water, becasue it mixes with cold water and it becomes 70 C ) and the second infusion is ready and drinkable in an instant, because it mixies the concentrated part from the bottom, pretty much like samovar brewing technique, and I repeat the procedure, but never stir the leaves, in a gaiwan if you stir you should pour it out or else it becomes "se" - bitter, with other types of leaves make the concentrate first wait a minute and fill it up, after that the same drill.

[teaforthetillerman]

Great thanks for all the help....much appreciated.

In regards to water temperture...

It seems that there is a general understanding that green teas should be brewed in the general area of 170 degrees F (give or take 10 degrees). However, in my graduate class there is a buddhist monk from Tiawan who owns a large tea plantation there. I thought it was really interesting and started to ask more about how she prepares her green tea. She says she allows the water to come to a full boil (which i believe is around 212 degrees F) and steeps the tea for a very short time (no more than 1:30).

I am new to tea, but a little confused on the differences in temperture.

I really want to get the most out of my green tea. I am wondering how people come to the conclusion of a certain temperture for green tea? Is it a matter or personal preferance or a scientific reason?

Hoping to get some more insight in to this little dilema lol....Thanks in advance!

[LauraW]

From my understanding, the reason for the lower water temperature is because at higher temperatures, you are actually scorching the tea. Black and oolong can stand up to the temperatures because of the oxidation, but green and white cannot. Given that, the time doesn't really matter, you're going to get a bitter tea even if you only steep for 30 sec. Like I said, that's my understanding, please someone else jump in if I'm wrong/left something out.

[debunix]

Denstea has a lovely and useful chart on this page here

http://www.denstea.com/index.php?main_p ... wingbasics

more directly here

http://www.denstea.com/img_brewing/chart2.jpg

that describes how different tea compononents are extracted at different temperatures--bitter compounds come out more at higher temperatures.

[Oni]

Great thanks for all the help....much appreciated.

In regards to water temperture...

It seems that there is a general understanding that green teas should be brewed in the general area of 170 degrees F (give or take 10 degrees). However, in my graduate class there is a buddhist monk from Tiawan who owns a large tea plantation there. I thought it was really interesting and started to ask more about how she prepares her green tea. She says she allows the water to come to a full boil (which i believe is around 212 degrees F) and steeps the tea for a very short time (no more than 1:30).

I am new to tea, but a little confused on the differences in temperture.

I really want to get the most out of my green tea. I am wondering how people come to the conclusion of a certain temperture for green tea? Is it a matter or personal preferance or a scientific reason?

Hoping to get some more insight in to this little dilema lol....Thanks in advance!

Generally they heat water up to a high temperature, but that doesn`t mean that they are putting leaves in the kettle at such a high temperature, generally I use near boiling water to make my green tea, but I infuse them at 70 - 80 C, I am achieving it by pouring from high and only 50 ml water on the leaves, thin porcelain and glass lose heat quick, and pouring high with thin stream also cools it down, I measured this with thermometer, so I knwo this for a fact, and when only 1/4 th of the cup remains, I pour near boiling water on the tea, and the cold part mixes with the hot and it comes again to the right temperature.
With japanese tea (I mean sencha), I pour boiling to the kyusu from low, and after that transfer water to the cups, and in the cups the water is around 80 C, ready to be transfered back to the kyusu.
Have you heard about the phoenix bows, when making Long Jing, they put in leaves to a recently and lightly preheated cup, and they pour from high and descend, the water is poured slowly in a thin stream and they repeat, the lift the kettle up and descend towards the cup 3 times, sometimes when they serve many people they do it quick, but because of thin glass cup with no lid loses heat I bet the heat only goes up max 85 C, in the cups, so the leaves are not burned, but rather steeped in little bit higher temperature than we used to.

[Chip]

... the monk may have been talking about "greener oolong" which can also take higher temps.
It is also conceivable that this Taiwan tea she grows may handle hotter temps as well.
Another possibility is perhaps they like their tea with a more bitter edge.
Also, she may have poured the water into the cups first, and then into the pot.
Sometimes Asians take for granted that we would know certain aspects of their particular brewing technics. But truth is, everywhere you go, it may vary slightly or quite a bit. I notice this quite a bit with Asian vendors' brewing directions!!!

Also ... if boiling water in higher altitudes, the boiling point drops. And if not preheating the pot, the temp drops off quickly when water is poured into the pot.

And lastly, teas are often taste tested with extreme water temps because this will quickly highlight the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Bottom line, there may be more to this monk's tale than meets the eye.

[gingkoseto]

Could it be too much leaves? Usually water dispenser's water won't be too hot for any Chinese green (and very often the concern is water from there is not hot enough). And most Chinese greens are made to stay in hot water for a long time, so usually steeping time doesn't matter much. A lot of leaves with shorter steeping time could be a way to get stronger flavor from some tea. But a lot of leaf with not short enough steeping time may generate slight bitterness (or simply too concentrated tea).