Grades of Dragon Well

[debunix]

It's been a slow battle to overcome my fears of bitterness in brewing green teas. I tried a lot of different things because I figured that the green stuff has to be popular for a reason. Along the way, I bought some nice Dragons Well from my local shop (about $10/oz bulk price) and after a few relatively bitter cups, went back and bought some of their fanciest ($15/oz bulk price), in case the problem was the quality of the tea rather than the quality of the tea brewer. I wasn't any happier with the fancy stuff, and eventually gave it to someone who appreciates it more as a gift.

Then I found a more forgiving green tea (Yunnan Mao Feng from Norbu), and decided to give the medium grade Dragons Well another chance. This time I got some very nice, sweet brews out of it, and when I ordered a sampler from Jing Tea, I got some of their fanciest Imperial Shi Feng Long Jing, and have been brewing it as closely as possible to the medium grade tea that I was so enjoying. But after several attempts, it seems to still have more astringency than the cheaper tea.

When just considering the two from the one source, where I gave up on the pricier before I had success with the cheaper, I was unsure whether the difference was increasing skill in the brewing. But now I'm wondering: perhaps the stronger astringent vegetal flavors of the pricier versions are exactly the quality, that I keep seeing described as 'nutty', that makes them worth more to the more traditional drinker of chinese teas.

Does that make sense, or does it seem like the product of an overcaffeinated brain?

[Oni]

Long Jing tea is so famous, that there is a great need for it, so there are many teas sold under the name of LJ, that are produced in diffrent regions, for example DAFO LJ, that was a poor region, and they started to make tea with LJ technique, so that the can better sell their tea.
So what tea is worthy to be called LJ? LJ produced in the Xi Hu district, from the original LJ cultivars, like cultivar nr. 43, and carefully handprocessed with the LJ making technique, read HOJO - GOD`s ( http://www.hojotea.com/item_e/g06e.htm ) description for identifying the real LJ, there are a few companies that sell real stuff at high price, like the one you bought from Jingteashop, that Imperial Shi Feng (Lion brand) Long Jing, that is also cultivar 43, so I would suggest you to pay attention to the water quality, use soft water, I use bottled high mountain spring soft water, with only 70 mg/100 ml water hardness and a 7.3 ph, boil it only till small crab eye`s appear, pour only little in the bottom of your glass cup, swirl, discard, put in leaves (I use 3 grams for 200 ml water), put only 50 ml crab eye water on the leaves so that they can open, leave it a minute, after that fill with the rest of the water, generally when drinking from a glass cup, wait until the leaves sink, do not stir when drinkig from a glass cup, when they are sunked, in around 5 minutes, drink it down until there is 1/4 `th of the water is left to cover the elaves, around 50 - 70 ml water in the cup, after that refill, always pour crab eye water from high, so that it can cool down and also stir the leaves. ( There are many diffrent methods of brewing tea, but this is simple and practical, for example yesterday I enjoyed Bi Luo Chun brewed similarly to gyokuro, with more leaves, small quantity, and 55 C water for first brew).

[Chip]

The lesser grades are often pan fired more, making them sweeter and less bitter/astringent. Westerners tend to like this, especially those newer to greens.

Chinese tend to like the more natural lighter pan fired versions, so I have read anyway. These tend to be more veggie to floral and command high prices. They are often counterfeited as well!!!

I can see the merits to both, the lesser grades (BUT not the low grades) can be easier to brew, more forgiving.

Try a lower temp for your high grade Shi Feng LJ.

[debunix]

I should have noted that I am brewing about 2 grams of leaves in a porcelain gaiwan with 60-70mL of water at 170-175 degrees, for 30-45 seconds, and getting 4 infusions from them. I use tap water, as I do for all of my teas.

The question here is not whether the infusion conditions are perfect--the important part is that they are as nearly the same as I can make them, for the different grades of tea.

The question is whether the seeming stronger astringency and nuttiness of the pricier teas is real, and is a feature, not a bug, to the traditional palate.

[Chip]

I think the higher grades are more veggie or floral, while the lesser are more nutty due to the added pan firing that is intended to cover up the inferior leaf.

And the lowest grades can be like the houjicha of Chinese greens ...

[Oni]

Sometimes when you buy a very high grade from a certain type of tea, you can notice the obvious diffrence from lower grades, but sometimes, you need to make it in the correct way to notice the diffrence, that justifies that certain tea to be categorized as high grade.
I am letting you in a secret, as long as you use tap water, you will never get you tea right, high quality green teas, in order for you to understand them you need clean soft water, your tap water is treated with so many chemicals, and generally it is hard water, you cannot notice the subtlety of tea; if the water is too hard it cannot extract enough taste out of your leaves, if it is soft it can better asimilate the tea juice, so I urge you at least to try your tea at least once with soft water, try Crystal geyser.
If you use 60 ml gaiwan, use 2, even 3 grams of tea, but always soft water, and low temperature 60 Celsius, 2 minutes first brew, if you like the tea strong and sweet, 30 seconds second brew, increase 30 seconds in subsecvent brewings, I really enjoyed Nonprail Bi Luo Chun this way, and it had very sweet aftertaste, I haven`t tried this with LJ, maybe I will try your method in this spring.

[Tead Off]

I should have noted that I am brewing about 2 grams of leaves in a porcelain gaiwan with 60-70mL of water at 170-175 degrees, for 30-45 seconds, and getting 4 infusions from them. I use tap water, as I do for all of my teas.

The question here is not whether the infusion conditions are perfect--the important part is that they are as nearly the same as I can make them, for the different grades of tea.

The question is whether the seeming stronger astringency and nuttiness of the pricier teas is real, and is a feature, not a bug, to the traditional palate.

I'm not sure your question can be answered here. Not only do we experience the flavor and aroma differently from each other, we also interpret them differently. Astringency to me, is different than nuttiness. Nuttiness is a kind of flavor while astringency is a drying quality that a tea can have especially if it is either overbrewed, or, in the case of greens, too high a temp. Then, there are teas that are naturally more astringent and you have to find where the balance is. What is important for you to discover is how to brew each tea to bring out the best. If you can do this, you can distinguish what you like and maybe why some teas cost more. Some of the most expensive teas have very subtle flavors so how strong a flavor is doesn't necessarily reflect on the grade of tea.

Nutty is a quality that good LJ has. Astringency is usually something that can be controlled.

[teaforthetillerman]

I ordered the Dragonwell from Adagio and happened to like it a lot. Definately a distinct taste to it. I was just curious (not like it matters all that much) but how does it stack up to other dragonwells?

I am new to tea and haven't been able to sample other dragonwells just yet.

Thanks for the input! If anyone would like to give me some recommendations that would be great too!

[iannon]

I think the higher grades are more veggie or floral, while the lesser are more nutty due to the added pan firing that is intended to cover up the inferior leaf.

And the lowest grades can be like the houjicha of Chinese greens ...

exactly my experience Chip. All the lower to medium grades i have ever had had the more "roasty" and "nutty" qualities to them. the few higher grades i have sampled have all been "lighter" more floral

[Chip]

I think the higher grades are more veggie or floral, while the lesser are more nutty due to the added pan firing that is intended to cover up the inferior leaf.

And the lowest grades can be like the houjicha of Chinese greens ...

exactly my experience Chip. All the lower to medium grades i have ever had had the more "roasty" and "nutty" qualities to them. the few higher grades i have sampled have all been "lighter" more floral

Whew, thought I was going crazy there ...

I actually had a few from Chinatown in tins that truly did resemble Houjicha in appearance ... and flavor profile.

[debunix]

The teas I've been working with all have nice large flat leaves that turn quite bright green on contact with water. Nothing houjicha-like about them!

[Chip]

The Houjicha like ones were the lowest of lowest grades ... like 100 grams and the tin for 5 bucks. I bought it mainly for the tin.

The highest grades are quite beautiful. I think Long Jing is my fave tea as far as dry leaf appearance.

[LauraW]

The Houjicha like ones were the lowest of lowest grades ... like 100 grams and the tin for 5 bucks. I bought it mainly for the tin.

Hey, nothing wrong with saying "hey, that's a great tin - oh wow, and I get free tea for buying it!" It might not be very good, but from what you've said in another thread, that's what the teabath is for!