Please help identifying (if you have nothing to do...)

[Zpro]

After having a couple brews late last night of this cake, i am actually quite impressed. It really seems to be average quality tea, and for 20$, I couldn`t even have shipped 350g to Canada from China, so im happy with the purchase.

I am really not planning on buying those 1950s bricks because I really dont have that kind of money to spend on tea (although sometimes I wish I did...)

Thanks a lot for the info everyone, although i`m still interested in knowing what factory and,or mountain this is from...

Thanks for reading everything, i appreciate your time.

[nicolas]

Also, simply if you know, did i get ripped off (20$CAN)?

Well, it's retailing for 4 Canadian dollars on Taobao.

Judging from the photos and price this doesn't look like old growth as claimed, and is more likely from plantation bushes (guànmù, 灌木; taídì, 台地).

It seems like a mediocre brand and the Chinatown dealer probably got it cheap from a wholesale supplier (Dayi would cost double or triple in terms of wholesale price). It has no investment value. It's like indulging in Dr. Pepper RC Cola and Inca Kola instead of Coca Cola.

I would prefer the Dayi recipes (like the 7572, 7262) both for immediate and long term consumption. I suggest you start with the Dayi or Haiwan ripe teas.

[gingkoseto]

The 7262 makes me feel uncomfortable about this product. It's not a standard number, but overlaps a real standard number. What impression did they intend to make by putting the number there?

How can you speak so authoritatively and yet be so wrong? 7262 is my favorite da yi shu recipe.

I agree in that 7262 is also my favorite Dayi shu recipe, but I think gingko meant the factory being dishonest by trying to trick people into thinking their cake is the genuine 7262.

In my experience, "recreations" of famous recipes is a fairly common practice, but most of the time they are fairly clear about it being a recreation from their factory. The 12 Gents 7572 is a great example of this, along with a handful of Haiwan releases throughout the years. Mengyang Guoyan is another recognizable brand that has done this (albeit with their own two digit numbers) while describing their tea as being their version of 7542 for example. These are just a few examples. As far as the dishonest factories trying to pass off their stuff as something else, well here is just one of countless examples; http://www.puerhshop.com/index.php?main ... cts_id=925

Yeah that's exactly what I mean.

And I apologize if I made it sound harsh. I never meant to speak authoratively though. I just personally don't feel comfortable about the number and think it's like putting a bestseller author's name on the cover of one's own book.

[bryan_drinks_tea]

Zpro,

As I'm sure you know, be careful of your orders. As many of these experienced tea guys have stated, it's pretty easy to get ripped. I agree with them: stick with the more well known brands like Da Yi.

Happy drinking!

Bryan

[debunix]

Are those of you suggesting taobao purchases mostly reading the chinese, or using translators?

[Maitre_Tea]

a little bit of both. My Chinese reading skills are average, but after a while you begin to recognize common characters. I like to use Google translate, but more importantly, babelcarp, which translates tea terms contextually, so "大益" is translated as "Dayi" and not "Great Benefit" which is the translation you would get if you used a regular translator

[Zpro]

Thanks maitre tea, that babelcarp site is pretty useful.
On another note, does anyone order stuff from taobao and ship directly to north america without an intermediate?
If so, how do you pay? How much is shipping?

Zach

[Maitre_Tea]

You could, but purchasing from Tao Bao requires having a Chinese bank account, so unless you have friends/family on the mainland, I'm afraid you're out of luck. They may be willing to accept payment via other methods, and they may be willing to ship internationally, but I'm guessing most won't, and even if they do it'll be expensive since they probably won't have good EMS discounts.

Most people use proxies, who charge a 10% fee on your entire purchase. One I've used in the past is taobao now, but they've fallen behind a bit so I'm branching out. Tao Bao Direct is another one, which I like since they have an office here in the states, but they don't ship tea (probably for legal reasons). Tao Bao Focus is one I've seen with the best EMS discount rates (60% off), but I haven't used them yet and they're relatively new.

If you think that buying stuff from Tao Bao will be cheaper than dealing with Scott from Yunnan Sourcing...think again. If you run the numbers it costs just as much to order from Yunnan Sourcing than it is to order from Tao Bao, and plus...there's no guarantee what you're buying via Tao Bao is genuine. I pretty much shop for things that I can't find elsewhere, or is substantially cheaper than from a western vendor.

[tenuki]

I agree in that 7262 is also my favorite Dayi shu recipe, but I think gingko meant the factory being dishonest by trying to trick people into thinking their cake is the genuine 7262.
Yeah that's exactly what I mean.

And I apologize if I made it sound harsh. I never meant to speak authoratively though. I just personally don't feel comfortable about the number and think it's like putting a bestseller author's name on the cover of one's own book.

Ah, that makes sense. Sorry Gingko, my bad for misunderstanding you.

My opinion on that follows:

I don't think the factory is being dishonest - The recipe is a standard 'taste' - it is like saying 'corn flakes' - many manufacturers make corn flakes and nobody complains. The cake has no dayi markings, the manufacturer is clearly marked. Remember, all of these factories used to be state run not very long ago and there was no distinction between who was making it and the recipe (aside from the factory number, which wasn't always accurate anyway). From what I can tell the chinese don't have the same standards of intellectual property law as we do, that might be hard to understand from a western point of view, but I doubt most chinese give this practice a second thought and in fact consider it helpful.

I would be very interested to get a chinese perspective on this.

To re-use your example Ginko - I think it's more like using the word mystery on the cover - the author is the factory and they aren't claiming dayi. The word mystery gives you a hint as to what the book may be about, very nice of them to put it there so you know what you are getting into.

[debunix]

Thank you for the taobao info. I'm not dissatisfied with the teas I'm getting now or the prices from my english language sources, but am just curious. I see a lot of references to it that make it sound as simple as e-bay, but the links go straight to very intimidating chinese character-filled pages, and I wondered if one of those characters meant "click here for english translation".....

[gingkoseto]

I agree in that 7262 is also my favorite Dayi shu recipe, but I think gingko meant the factory being dishonest by trying to trick people into thinking their cake is the genuine 7262.
Yeah that's exactly what I mean.

And I apologize if I made it sound harsh. I never meant to speak authoratively though. I just personally don't feel comfortable about the number and think it's like putting a bestseller author's name on the cover of one's own book.

Ah, that makes sense. Sorry Gingko, my bad for misunderstanding you.

My opinion on that follows:

I don't think the factory is being dishonest - The recipe is a standard 'taste' - it is like saying 'corn flakes' - many manufacturers make corn flakes and nobody complains. The cake has no dayi markings, the manufacturer is clearly marked. Remember, all of these factories used to be state run not very long ago and there was no distinction between who was making it and the recipe (aside from the factory number, which wasn't always accurate anyway). From what I can tell the chinese don't have the same standards of intellectual property law as we do, that might be hard to understand from a western point of view, but I doubt most chinese give this practice a second thought and in fact consider it helpful.

I would be very interested to get a chinese perspective on this.

To re-use your example Ginko - I think it's more like using the word mystery on the cover - the author is the factory and they aren't claiming dayi. The word mystery gives you a hint as to what the book may be about, very nice of them to put it there so you know what you are getting into.

My bad that I didn't say it very clearly from the beginning
I guess finally it's still the taste that counts. If the tea is generally good, then maybe people wouldn't care much about borrowing the number. But if the taste is not comparable to the original version, then it's more annoying. Besides, there are still more and more new puerh drinkers in China as well as the rest of the world. I wonder if the factory intend to make their tea sound good to new drinkers by putting a famous number there.

[MarshalN]

$20 isn't that ridiculous for a $4 cake just because of shipping and other costs. Buying direct from taobao wouldn't have saved you much, if at all.

Having said that, I don't know if I'll ever pay $20 for this. It's a small factory claiming a big factory recipe. It claims "banzhang", but it's cooked, which means whatever mountain the tea is from, it's not going to be Banzhang. All in all, it has "avoid" written all over it. If I want cooked tea, it's always going to be Dayi.

[Zpro]

Thanks for the tips MarshalN (note to self DAYI!)
I cannot wait to try some dayi since from what I have read, it seems very clear that it is the standard.

I will have to wait though, since i just bought a 350g cake (which is actually pretty good) and about a kilo coming from yunnan sourcing anytime now. Next order will most likely be a 7542 and whatever I figure out is the standard dayi ripe (or if they even are the standard for ripes...?).

Thanks again everyone, I gain appreciation for this forum and especially it's members by the minute.

Zach