I was just curious what other forum members think about tea ware vendors offering the best items privately to select customers, then posting them as already sold, leaving the remaining junk for everyone else. I'm not talking about special orders; those of course should be offered first to the customer who requested them.
I won't name the vendors, but one has an automated ordering system so it would be difficult to know for sure they're doing this, except they have admitted it. I have refused taking advantage of this when offered to me because I feel it is unfair to other customers, and that it should be first-come first-served.
The other vendor does not have automated ordering, so to sell an item that was just posted requires an e-mail to the vendor and his adding a sold label to it. This usually takes some time, especially considering the time difference between Asia and here. I used to check this vendor's site several times per day so as to have a good chance of purchasing select, one-of-a-kind items that would proably sell quickly. Several times I checked back 10 to 15 minutes after my first look, which showed no new postings, only to see the new products had just been put up and one or more already had a "sold" label on them. In this case, it does appear that they were offered to specific customers before the rest of us saw them.
A vendor can run his business any way he sees fit, so I'm not arguing his right to presell to select customers. However, as a customer who has regularly spent a lot of money at these two online shops, it is my right to take my business elsewhere, and I have. There were several times I had been considering placing an order of several hundred dollars when I saw this happen. I took the allocated money to another vendor and have all but stopped doing business with these two. Their special treatment of one or two customers may actually hurt their businesses if they lose the rest of their customer base.
Aug 3rd, '10, 18:22
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Re: Vendors Privately Selling Select Items Before Posting Them
Interesting, but why did they post the items on their site at all? So the first one contacted you about items they thought you might be interested in?
One thing that does drive me a bit crazy, I notice this mostly on Japanese teaware sites. A sold item remains on the site for an eternity, a reminder of opportunities missed. Often these items remain on the page along with items still available for over a year.
OK, that was a bit off topic. Perhaps a teaware vendor pet peeve topic is needed?
One thing that does drive me a bit crazy, I notice this mostly on Japanese teaware sites. A sold item remains on the site for an eternity, a reminder of opportunities missed. Often these items remain on the page along with items still available for over a year.
OK, that was a bit off topic. Perhaps a teaware vendor pet peeve topic is needed?
Aug 3rd, '10, 19:06
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Herb_Master
Re: Vendors Privately Selling Select Items Before Posting Them
Not sure what I think about either of the 2 points raised here!
To think out loud about Chip's peeve first, I would say that it is not too much of a problem for me. OR it would not be if it were blatantly obvious that the item was sold. I have browsed down some pages looking at items only to discover the ones that I like most are already sold, I would be happy with that if it was obviously sold already, at first glance.
My reasoning being that I then know the site is worth revisiting to see if the artist has produced any more in the same vein.
We expect our artists / artisans to be good at their craft, maybe it is too much to expect them to be perfect chroniclers and marketeers of their wares also. There is no single template applied to all the websites covering artists, some have gallery pages of all their best works, some have galleries of their recent works - it is annoying when you like them have no idea of how to go about purchasing from the said artist. Others show only their available works, and with all the swoopers and collectors around it is only through viewing TeaChatters' captures in the TeaChat pages that I can see an artist does indeed make wares I would covet, for their etsy pages are frequently very sparsely filled.
For Britt's original point it is partly covered by the second half of my comments on Chip's concern, further there is a parallel on tea - leaf -vendor's notifying me of teas purchased but not yet arrived and therefore not posted on the site - would I like to buy some in advance! I guess this is less of an issue there will be more than 1 quantity of tea available, and it may stop me purchasing from an alternative vendor if I know one of my trusted vendors has some just around the corner. I do feel there is a business case for doing this for both tea and teaware vendors.
I am a little lazy at times but prepared to do prodigious amount of legwork surfing the net, I notice that others proactively communicate with artists, even comissioning works from the artist. If the artist has comissioned works which he is very proud of, and already sold, I would not deny him the opportunity to display it for the general public to see - including disappointed prospective customers.
I just wish they would all highlight them as SOLD big and brazen rather than when you click on 'more info' or even worse 'add to basket'
I guess what I would ideally want is a website that includes galleries of previous work and different pages for items that are available - Not to mention all sorts of other pages about materials, technical info and the full story behind the pottery and potter. But I think it is fairer to let the artist / potter get on with what he does best which is producing his pots, and we can stumble along with the website
To think out loud about Chip's peeve first, I would say that it is not too much of a problem for me. OR it would not be if it were blatantly obvious that the item was sold. I have browsed down some pages looking at items only to discover the ones that I like most are already sold, I would be happy with that if it was obviously sold already, at first glance.
My reasoning being that I then know the site is worth revisiting to see if the artist has produced any more in the same vein.
We expect our artists / artisans to be good at their craft, maybe it is too much to expect them to be perfect chroniclers and marketeers of their wares also. There is no single template applied to all the websites covering artists, some have gallery pages of all their best works, some have galleries of their recent works - it is annoying when you like them have no idea of how to go about purchasing from the said artist. Others show only their available works, and with all the swoopers and collectors around it is only through viewing TeaChatters' captures in the TeaChat pages that I can see an artist does indeed make wares I would covet, for their etsy pages are frequently very sparsely filled.
For Britt's original point it is partly covered by the second half of my comments on Chip's concern, further there is a parallel on tea - leaf -vendor's notifying me of teas purchased but not yet arrived and therefore not posted on the site - would I like to buy some in advance! I guess this is less of an issue there will be more than 1 quantity of tea available, and it may stop me purchasing from an alternative vendor if I know one of my trusted vendors has some just around the corner. I do feel there is a business case for doing this for both tea and teaware vendors.
I am a little lazy at times but prepared to do prodigious amount of legwork surfing the net, I notice that others proactively communicate with artists, even comissioning works from the artist. If the artist has comissioned works which he is very proud of, and already sold, I would not deny him the opportunity to display it for the general public to see - including disappointed prospective customers.
I just wish they would all highlight them as SOLD big and brazen rather than when you click on 'more info' or even worse 'add to basket'
I guess what I would ideally want is a website that includes galleries of previous work and different pages for items that are available - Not to mention all sorts of other pages about materials, technical info and the full story behind the pottery and potter. But I think it is fairer to let the artist / potter get on with what he does best which is producing his pots, and we can stumble along with the website
Aug 3rd, '10, 19:16
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sep 15th, '09, 16:11
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Re: Vendors Privately Selling Select Items Before Posting Them
britt,
Can you explain a bit more what you are talking about? I am not quite sure I fully understand exactly what you mean here.
What you are experienceing (if I am getting this correctly) might be the difference between the lower end "stores" or "vendors".... and more of a "gallery" or " class auction house" approach.
In the art gallery circuit (the world I tend to live in a lot
) it is a very common (almost universal) practice to have something like a "special preview" party for a select group of good, regular gallery customers a day or two before the exhibition opens to the public. Or to send the catalog and pricelist of the exhibition in advance to those same people. Or to send digital pictures of specific pieces in the upcoming show to a particular client who might tend to "favor" that particular type of piece.
This is why many times you walk into an exhibition "opening" and many pieces already have the ole' red dots on them and you got there only 10 minutes after the show opened.
From the point of view of the "good customers", this is part of the service that a good gallery is expected to provide to it's "high rollers". From the perspective of the gallery, it is a way to assure sales and repeat customers. It is just good business. From the artist's point of view, it is part of what the galleries percentage of the sale is paying for.
Yes, it is not favorable to the more casual customer or the first time buyer who stumbles on the exhibition / offering. But most galleries are happy to give you advance notice if you ask them for something specific. It sounds like maybe the places you are describing have offered you this kind of courtesty.......... but you declined to use it. Yes?
THEY are thinking that they are giving you good customer service by doing so.
I don't personally see it as a problem. But you certainly have the perogative to not take advantage of such services. It is just the way things work in the art world.....and has been since I was a student back in the 60's. It may be that a more lower end "vendor" type place is trying to "up" it's image and client base by treating their customers more like the upper end galleries do.
In some ways, it is not too much different from the TeawareArtisans's doing a "Special Offering" here on Teachat in the aspect of not being fully democratic (small "d'). People on TeaChat can easily buy these pieces and know about them. People not on TeaChat cannot...or have to stumble on them later via maybe a net search, and then become members of TeaChat.
The ordering systems for online ordering can be problematic at best. Keeping stuff really current requires a sophisticated shopping cart system. For a place like Amazon.... with a raft of tech support folks on contract.... a snap. For the small vendor... not so easy. So outdated listings certainly can be understandable from my point of view.
I hope I have maybe hit some of the background on what you are concerned about. If not... please let me know. Like I said... I am not sure I understod the original posting clearly.
best,
.....................john
Can you explain a bit more what you are talking about? I am not quite sure I fully understand exactly what you mean here.
What you are experienceing (if I am getting this correctly) might be the difference between the lower end "stores" or "vendors".... and more of a "gallery" or " class auction house" approach.
In the art gallery circuit (the world I tend to live in a lot
) it is a very common (almost universal) practice to have something like a "special preview" party for a select group of good, regular gallery customers a day or two before the exhibition opens to the public. Or to send the catalog and pricelist of the exhibition in advance to those same people. Or to send digital pictures of specific pieces in the upcoming show to a particular client who might tend to "favor" that particular type of piece.This is why many times you walk into an exhibition "opening" and many pieces already have the ole' red dots on them and you got there only 10 minutes after the show opened.
From the point of view of the "good customers", this is part of the service that a good gallery is expected to provide to it's "high rollers". From the perspective of the gallery, it is a way to assure sales and repeat customers. It is just good business. From the artist's point of view, it is part of what the galleries percentage of the sale is paying for.
Yes, it is not favorable to the more casual customer or the first time buyer who stumbles on the exhibition / offering. But most galleries are happy to give you advance notice if you ask them for something specific. It sounds like maybe the places you are describing have offered you this kind of courtesty.......... but you declined to use it. Yes?
THEY are thinking that they are giving you good customer service by doing so.
I don't personally see it as a problem. But you certainly have the perogative to not take advantage of such services. It is just the way things work in the art world.....and has been since I was a student back in the 60's. It may be that a more lower end "vendor" type place is trying to "up" it's image and client base by treating their customers more like the upper end galleries do.
In some ways, it is not too much different from the TeawareArtisans's doing a "Special Offering" here on Teachat in the aspect of not being fully democratic (small "d'). People on TeaChat can easily buy these pieces and know about them. People not on TeaChat cannot...or have to stumble on them later via maybe a net search, and then become members of TeaChat.
The ordering systems for online ordering can be problematic at best. Keeping stuff really current requires a sophisticated shopping cart system. For a place like Amazon.... with a raft of tech support folks on contract.... a snap. For the small vendor... not so easy. So outdated listings certainly can be understandable from my point of view.
I hope I have maybe hit some of the background on what you are concerned about. If not... please let me know. Like I said... I am not sure I understod the original posting clearly.
best,
.....................john
Re: Vendors Privately Selling Select Items Before Posting Them
I don't see anything wrong with this sort of thing. If you want the best stuff, of course it pays to develop a good relationship with vendors or artists that you like or trust.
I don't have any expectation that a vendor ought to behave "fairly" or give everyone an option to buy things on a first come / first serve basis. Vendors are there to make money, and in general, they'll do whatever furthers their financial interest. And while they want to sell as much as possible, it is in their long term interest to look out for good / repeat customers. Also, it's very common with tea stuff that a vendor may not put specific things on their site, either because they have limited quantities, don't think they're of interest to most customers, or whatever. And, in a lot of ways, buying and selling are all about relationships.
But keep in mind that sometimes, this may be a marketing tactic -- trying to make you feel special for getting a "special offer". It's possible that they don't want other people to see it because they'd see some flaw, or post on teachat about how it's overpriced.
I don't have any expectation that a vendor ought to behave "fairly" or give everyone an option to buy things on a first come / first serve basis. Vendors are there to make money, and in general, they'll do whatever furthers their financial interest. And while they want to sell as much as possible, it is in their long term interest to look out for good / repeat customers. Also, it's very common with tea stuff that a vendor may not put specific things on their site, either because they have limited quantities, don't think they're of interest to most customers, or whatever. And, in a lot of ways, buying and selling are all about relationships.
But keep in mind that sometimes, this may be a marketing tactic -- trying to make you feel special for getting a "special offer". It's possible that they don't want other people to see it because they'd see some flaw, or post on teachat about how it's overpriced.
Re: Vendors Privately Selling Select Items Before Posting Them
Funny... after ordering a one-off item on a well known tea site lately, I'm getting a bit nervous NOT seeing a "Sold" note added to it. 
Did they get my payment? Has it been shipped yet? The suspense is killing me. 
One thing I thought of is that it's good free market research for a business to leave sold items on sites for a while to see how many people enquire about them.
Did they get my payment? Has it been shipped yet? The suspense is killing me. One thing I thought of is that it's good free market research for a business to leave sold items on sites for a while to see how many people enquire about them.
Re: Vendors Privately Selling Select Items Before Posting Them
You pretty much hit the point; if an item has been sold before it's posted, why post it at all? I know it will show other customers what items have been carried by the vendor. It can also alienate other regular, repeat customers who scan the site multiple times a day to get a jump on new products, only to have them sold before the product is even posted for everyone else to see.Chip wrote:Interesting, but why did they post the items on their site at all? So the first one contacted you about items they thought you might be interested in?
One thing that does drive me a bit crazy, I notice this mostly on Japanese teaware sites. A sold item remains on the site for an eternity, a reminder of opportunities missed. Often these items remain on the page along with items still available for over a year.
OK, that was a bit off topic. Perhaps a teaware vendor pet peeve topic is needed?
The first vendor did ask if I wanted to review certain items when they arrived, before they were posted. They also offered to do this in the future. At first I accepted, but declined the purchase. I also declined doing this any more in the future. I really do believe first-come first-served is fairer for all customers, but if done the other way, don't post the items or put them in an archive.
I think vendors that archive sold products have the right idea. Anyone can see their past "missed opportunities" without it interfering with current window-shopping.
Re: Vendors Privately Selling Select Items Before Posting Them
Yes, it's the "one of a kind" products that I take issue with when business is done that way. I'm also not talking about commisioning or special-ordering a product, as the person who does that should certainly get first choice when they arrive. Some vendors are the opposite; they ask if you want something in particular when they visit a show, etc, then they post it for sale on their site without telling you!Herb_Master wrote:For Britt's original point it is partly covered by the second half of my comments on Chip's concern, further there is a parallel on tea - leaf -vendor's notifying me of teas purchased but not yet arrived and therefore not posted on the site - would I like to buy some in advance! I guess this is less of an issue there will be more than 1 quantity of tea available, and it may stop me purchasing from an alternative vendor if I know one of my trusted vendors has some just around the corner. I do feel there is a business case for doing this for both tea and teaware vendors.
Re: Vendors Privately Selling Select Items Before Posting Them
Hi John,JBaymore wrote:britt,
Can you explain a bit more what you are talking about? I am not quite sure I fully understand exactly what you mean here...
What you are experienceing (if I am getting this correctly) might be the difference between the lower end "stores" or "vendors".... and more of a "gallery" or " class auction house" approach...
In some ways, it is not too much different from the TeawareArtisans's doing a "Special Offering" here on Teachat in the aspect of not being fully democratic (small "d'). People on TeaChat can easily buy these pieces and know about them. People not on TeaChat cannot...or have to stumble on them later via maybe a net search, and then become members of TeaChat...
Thanks for another detailed answer with an "inside" view.
What I mean is when a customer goes to a website to check for new listings and the best of the newly-listed items are already sold. Since they had just checked 10 minutes ago and there were no new listings, and they went back because this vendor posts new items around this time every day, it would appear that these items were sold privately prior to posting them. This seems to be especially true when considering that the old-fashioned manual ordering system, using e-mail, would not likely have occurred this quickly.
One vendor is definitely high-end while the other is mainstream with a proportion of high-end products.
I haven't participated in the Tea Chat sales, but I think within the group (forum members) it's first-come first-served. Again, I don't argue a vendor's right to run his business however they see fit. However, I think in at least some cases this is shortsighted and may lose other customers.
Re: Vendors Privately Selling Select Items Before Posting Them
I guess each customer has different views on how a vendor should operate, which is why we all have our favorites.wyardley wrote:I don't see anything wrong with this sort of thing. If you want the best stuff, of course it pays to develop a good relationship with vendors or artists that you like or trust.
I don't have any expectation that a vendor ought to behave "fairly" or give everyone an option to buy things on a first come / first serve basis. Vendors are there to make money, and in general, they'll do whatever furthers their financial interest. And while they want to sell as much as possible, it is in their long term interest to look out for good / repeat customers. Also, it's very common with tea stuff that a vendor may not put specific things on their site, either because they have limited quantities, don't think they're of interest to most customers, or whatever. And, in a lot of ways, buying and selling are all about relationships.
But keep in mind that sometimes, this may be a marketing tactic -- trying to make you feel special for getting a "special offer". It's possible that they don't want other people to see it because they'd see some flaw, or post on teachat about how it's overpriced.
Last paragraph:
The problems wasn't not posting it, but posting it after it was sold privately.
Also, you make good points about "feeling special" and flaws. One item I originally declined sat on the site for over a year before it was sold. If it was really a prime item, I think it would have sold much quicker.
Re: Vendors Privately Selling Select Items Before Posting Them
I've had the problem you mentioned as well, where I see the sold item still showing as available.tingjunkie wrote:Funny... after ordering a one-off item on a well known tea site lately, I'm getting a bit nervous NOT seeing a "Sold" note added to it.
One thing I thought of is that it's good free market research for a business to leave sold items on sites for a while to see how many people enquire about them.
I also like seeing sold or out of stock items but I wish they were archived when they're limited production or one of a kinds. The normal stuff I don't mind because I know they will eventually restock.