"stems and leaves" from Adagio is Kukicha?

[febs]

I ordered a tin of "stems and leaves". Later I discovered from wikipedia about the kukicha tea, and it seemed a very similar tea to me.
So I googled for both terms; and I found a review on adagio; the reviewer wrote that the tea "isn't as good since the label has been changed to 'stems and leaves".

So it's just a matter of label?
Is it that really kukicha? If so, is it very low on caffeine? I would love that, although I still have to get used to it's taste (I'm used to sencha now), and maybe I just have to learn how to brew it properly (I don't own a tea thermometer... yet).

Thanks!

[Leo_Blue]

Kukicha means "twig tea" in Japanese, so that's what you should expect is lots of stems and larger leaves. Adagio's Kukicha is labeled as Kukicha on their website, not "stems and leaves" so I'm not sure what your question is asking... Could you rephrase what you were wanting to know?

To answer your other question, yes Kukicha is lower in caffeine than sencha is. I can't give you any numbers for that, but usually the older growth on the tea plant (like what is in Kukicha) has less caffeine. That's not to say it has very little (I don't really know how much it typically has) but it does have less.

[Nenugal]

Kukicha means "twig tea" in Japanese, so that's what you should expect is lots of stems and larger leaves. Adagio's Kukicha is labeled as Kukicha on their website, not "stems and leaves" so I'm not sure what your question is asking... Could you rephrase what you were wanting to know?

To answer your other question, yes Kukicha is lower in caffeine than sencha is. I can't give you any numbers for that, but usually the older growth on the tea plant (like what is in Kukicha) has less caffeine. That's not to say it has very little (I don't really know how much it typically has) but it does have less.

It is named "Stems and Leaves" on Adagio's European website: http://www.adagio.uk.com/tins/tin_stems_and_leaves.html
However, in the description, it is also called "Kukicha Baton"!
Actually I'm drinking it right now and I wish there was more caffeine in it to wake me up

[febs]

Yes, sorry for being inaccurate: there's this tea named "Kukicha" in the U.S. website and this other named "Stems and leaves" in the European one.

I would just love to know if they are the same (and if so, why they have different names?)

I have a cup of it (the European one ) in front of me. It seems that it gets bitter minute after minute. I mean, after the brew, just sitting in the cup. The IngenuiTEA seems to have filtered it pretty well, though, so it "tastes" odd to me

Still have to learn how to brew it properly, probably.

Thanks all for the feedback!

[JRS22]

Maybe the issue is how you brewed the kukicha. I follow the Den's Tea instructions - 180 degrees for 1 minute.

As for the impact of changing the name - maybe it's just a coincidence. The first year that I was drinking tea the kukicha from Adagio and Upton was amazing, and then the next year it was just ordinary. By then I was experimenting with more sophisticated teas so I don't know if the change was in the tea or my perception of it.

Other teas are labeled differently from the US version - genmaicha is called green popcorn tea.

[febs]

Green popcorn. Oh my.

Anyhow, I'll try to brew it for a single minute, thanks. But! The tin states (literally):
"Use one teaspoon per cup, steep in cooler (180F) water for three minutes - and enjoy".

There's unfortunately no mention at all for what matter the second and third brew.

[Chip]

I sense the labeling may be for more mainstream targets, such as at a supermarket. Joe Consumer would not know kukicha (or genmaicha if is came up and bit him on the asterisk )

Same with the brewing directions which tend to be more "Western" versus Asian approach.

But brewing directions for most more mainstream vendors are rarely very helpful to a hard core tea drinker. Seriously, what can they say in a few sentences that we have not learned through trial and error.

[febs]

I don't know. In my, indeed very humble, opinion, a consumer of green tea is at least a bit more savvy than the Joe Consumer which walks through supermarkets. I wonder why the renaming of those teas is done. They do consider us Europeans less tea-savvy?

Anyhow!

About brewing instructions. Since they cared about suggesting a temperature lower than the boiling one (which is something that average tea drinkers usually don't know), and that's fine and great; I wonder then why they wrote three minutes of steeping if one or less is recommended.

For what matters multiple brews, the tin says "50 cups". But with multiple brews a lot more can be made (150?). Chip arguments sounds reasonable here (although sad): not to overwhelm the normal tea drinker with strange infos like multiple brews

I wrote to the support to ask about the "stems and leaves" and multiple brews; and they quickly answered "green tea can usually be steeped two or three times" anyway.

[tortoise]

Unless you are dealing with a truly passionate boutique vendor, you can pretty much discount anything they say about brewing technique. They are almost ALWAYS completely wrong. If I am trying a tea brand new to me, I will look on this forum first to see if anyone has come to helpful conclusions so I don't have to reinvent the wheel. If I can't find anything, I will use the vendor's guidelines as a place to start, but usually have to modify later.

Regarding the name, that's a bunch of marketing hooey. Who knows why they believe it will sell better in Europe as "stems and leaves" than "kukicha".

[JRS22]

Anyhow, I'll try to brew it for a single minute, thanks. But! The tin states (literally):
"Use one teaspoon per cup, steep in cooler (180F) water for three minutes - and enjoy".

I think that Adagio gives the same brewing advice for ALL their green teas. I'm sure occasionally they're correct.

[Kunkali]

This thread is unreal...I mean aren't they kind of insulting the intelligence of Europeans by "dumbing down" the names? I don't understand the motive.

[Chip]

OK, remember I am an elected Moderator and do not work for Adagio.

The popcorn tea is in the USA, I have seen it in supermarkets. I don't know about the stems and leaves tea naming, never saw it in a B & M store. But in a store like Giant, this might make sense.

Perhaps they are testing names?

[tortoise]

This thread is unreal...I mean aren't they kind of insulting the intelligence of Europeans by "dumbing down" the names? I don't understand the motive.

I don't think anyone should take it personally. It's whatever gives the product a lift off the shelves.

Edit: Come to think of it, I recall a kukicha in the US by, I believe it was, Eden Foods, and it was called Twig Tea. Simple and to the point. It's not exactly dumbing down but offering a simple translation for a softer introduction to a product in a certain market that may not have previously known about it.

[Kunkali]

Ehh I didn't take it personally...then again I'm not European...I just think this thread is mildly amusing....for some reason I find twig tea a more acceptable term than stem and leaves I have no idea why.

[febs]

I would definitely would love (not to say that I need) to know what's the official point from Adagio AND, most important, if the two boxes just contains the same tea or the two have a different quality (that's definitely possible in my opinion and would justify the different names.

Cheers!