Switching to organic only

[gingkoseto]

Based on the little I know about the Japanese agricultural policy, I do believe even the non-organic crops in Japan are much cleaner than non-organic crops in many other countries with longer history of organic movement. And generally many farmers of high quality tea have strong bondage to their crops and use much more eco-friendly methods than many other fields of agriculture. I think organic movement is generally a good trend. But I don't like to think non-organic cultivation is just full of pesticides and other negative stuff. This would make people easily ignore many people's efforts in good agricultural practice just because they don't do 100% organic cultivation.

I never want to call non-organic cultivation "conventional", because it's not really a convention from anybody's grandfather generation. Most Yunnan puerh farmers hadn't seen any pesticide yet in early 2000s

[Chubseus]

I think organic movement is generally a good trend. But I don't like to think non-organic cultivation is just full of pesticides and other negative stuff. This would make people easily ignore many people's efforts in good agricultural practice just because they don't do 100% organic cultivation.

How right you are. Combining organic methods with non-organic soft chemicals will be the way of the future, I hope.

Does anyone know, or have a good resource for, what kinds of organics are used on tea plants? Pesticides, fungicides, or bactericides?

[solitude]

"organic" in general is now in fashion, but almost everything what we eat, drink or breath is not "organic", so if I will drink only chemistry free tea I will be more healthy? I do not think so...and officially the herbicides and pesticides are safe, so what are we talking about?
if you are eating only "organic" vegetable, and nothing else, than maybe the organic tea has sense, otherwise...
so I think it is just a marketing trick.

[entropyembrace]

"organic" in general is now in fashion, but almost everything what we eat, drink or breath is not "organic", so if I will drink only chemistry free tea I will be more healthy? I do not think so...and officially the herbicides and pesticides are safe, so what are we talking about?
if you are eating only "organic" vegetable, and nothing else, than maybe the organic tea has sense, otherwise...
so I think it is just a marketing trick.

Organic in the food industry doesn´t mean the same thing that it does in chemistry

And if you´re thinking about what it means in chemistry then everything we eat is organic.

It means growing without synthetic pesticides or fertilizers.

Also while it may be relatively safe to eat food which has been treated with synthetic pesticides and fertilizers they do cause serious ecological problems. The fertilizers cause algae overblooms downstream which can lead to oxygen depletion of wetlands...and the pesticides can threaten species which are not the intended targets...such as bees which are very useful in agriculture.

[iannon]

"organic" in general is now in fashion, but almost everything what we eat, drink or breath is not "organic", so if I will drink only chemistry free tea I will be more healthy? I do not think so...and officially the herbicides and pesticides are safe, so what are we talking about?
if you are eating only "organic" vegetable, and nothing else, than maybe the organic tea has sense, otherwise...
so I think it is just a marketing trick.

Organic in the food industry doesn´t mean the same thing that it does in chemistry

And if you´re thinking about what it means in chemistry then everything we eat is organic.

It means growing without synthetic pesticides or fertilizers.
yeah..and the Bees are actually kind of in trouble around here...
Also while it may be relatively safe to eat food which has been treated with synthetic pesticides and fertilizers they do cause serious ecological problems. The fertilizers cause algae overblooms downstream which can lead to oxygen depletion of wetlands...and the pesticides can threaten species which are not the intended targets...such as bees which are very useful in agriculture.

Yes and the Bees are in quite a bit of trouble around here...

[Tead Off]

I have the slight impression that in Japan they only started recently to produce organic teas, because of the great hype with organic stuff, and the do not have old bushes, enherited from their grandparents, or if they have it they mix it with new bushes, take for comparison the Dancong oolong, the "new" young farms produce crappy tea full of chemicals, and look at teahabitats organic old single bush teas, the diffrence is huge, I think this is true for all kinds of tea.

In Darjeeling, many tea gardens have been or are in the process of converting to organic production. I was told by the manager of one of the tea gardens that this is a 3 year process. This is a completely different topic than choosing teas from old bush vs. new bush. Both can be organic, but, the old bush will almost certainly be better in quality if it is processed well.

[chingwa]

I am all for organic, even if it adds a bit of a premium on to the tea prices. the problem for me is, every time I've deliberately tried an organic in the past, I ended up not liking the taste. I was missing something significant (a few samples from Hibiki-an and a few from O-Cha ... can't remember which at this point ) in the flavor. If I remember correctly they didn't have the deepness in flavor I was looking for, and also seemed to get a little "skunky" really too quickly after I opened the bag (my teas are usually gone within 2-3 weeks after I open them).

The last time I tried it I vowed to stop wasting my money on organics. I assumed they would be better, if not just as good as normal tea. especially in Japan the lengths a tea farm has to go through to get organic certification are really impressive, thus I would hesitate to label "organics" as a marketing trick of any kind. however my taste buds say differently...

[gingkoseto]

If an organic tea doesn't taste good to you, very possibly it's not caused by the organic practice, but caused by not enough fertilizer. Theoretically there are many options of organic fertilizers - for example, some farmer told me sheep droppings work perfectly for TGY, it's no secret but not everyone pays all the money and labor to do it.

But I guess the problem is not all organic producers give the plants most ideal forms or amounts of organic fertilizer, for various reasons. Besides, I don't know if it's the case for other countries too - in China, usually the non-historically-famous regions have the strongest incentive to produce organic tea. Many of these regions are not historically famous tea regions because they don't have the best soil for certain type of tea. Then, this could possibly be compensated by using right formula of organic fertilizer. But then again not everybody wants to spend money and labor to do it. Besides, theoretically even sheep droppings must be sterilized (by boiling?) to be qualified for organic certification. Not many people can afford using natural, sterilized droppings. The farmer I know who used sheep droppings (unsterilized) didn't use it for the sake of organic certification, but for the quality of his tea.

[solitude]

"organic" in general is now in fashion, but almost everything what we eat, drink or breath is not "organic", so if I will drink only chemistry free tea I will be more healthy? I do not think so...and officially the herbicides and pesticides are safe, so what are we talking about?
if you are eating only "organic" vegetable, and nothing else, than maybe the organic tea has sense, otherwise...
so I think it is just a marketing trick.

Organic in the food industry doesn´t mean the same thing that it does in chemistry

And if you´re thinking about what it means in chemistry then everything we eat is organic.

It means growing without synthetic pesticides or fertilizers.

Also while it may be relatively safe to eat food which has been treated with synthetic pesticides and fertilizers they do cause serious ecological problems. The fertilizers cause algae overblooms downstream which can lead to oxygen depletion of wetlands...and the pesticides can threaten species which are not the intended targets...such as bees which are very useful in agriculture.

I am half way in my phd in organic chemistry so I think I know what means "organic" in chemistry, anyway, my point is that everythink around is chemically treated so drinkink only organic teas will have minor efect on your healt, enviroment or whatever.

[Tead Off]

I am half way in my phd in organic chemistry so I think I know what means "organic" in chemistry, anyway, my point is that everythink around is chemically treated so drinkink only organic teas will have minor efect on your healt, enviroment or whatever.

Elementary, Dottore. You have to start somewhere and this is a tea forum.

[Uji]

I can not taste the difference between good organic Sencha and conventional Sencha. I think if you don't sell organic Sencha than you say the taste is not very good compared to the conventional. If you try different temperatures and times you make can make it very good. Organic fruit and vegetables always taste better especially the onions which are more flavour. Organic produce makes a health difference. DDT in particular is known carcinogen and confirmed link to breast cancer.

[Chip]

I can not taste the difference between good organic Sencha and conventional Sencha.

I disagree. There are clear differences between otherwise like types of sencha and organic. For instance a Yutaka Midori organic and conventional are clearly different. While both may be prepared well, there are clearly differences. For this reason, I try not to compare organic to conventional, instead treating it as an almost different type of tea.

Also adjustments must be made in preparation of organic, usually.

I think if you don't sell organic Sencha than you say the taste is not very good compared to the conventional.

An oversimplification I think. Many vendors would love to offer outstanding examples of organic sencha that has so far eluded them. Very few vendors have successfully sourced organics since they are likely harder to source ... at least in the beginning until relationships are established.

If you try different temperatures and times you make can make it very good.

... and amount of leaf often times ... some organics only begin to shine with more leaf.

[AlexZorach]

I agree about the taste, organic teas tend to taste different. Since I support organic agriculture out of principle, I'm more than willing to develop my taste preferences to prefer organics. I tend to drink much more Chinese green tea than Japanese though, so I don't have enough of a sense of the taste differences among Japanese green teas; among Chinese green teas though, I have come to really enjoy organics.

---

About chemicals:

Japan tends to have pretty good quality control, so it's probably not worth worrying that much about chemicals in your tea, but it's certainly a possibility and it wouldn't hurt to go organic.

I think a more compelling reason to go organic, at least as far as I'm concerned, is environmental impact. I don't know about others, but I'm highly concerned with the well-being of the people and communities that produce the foods, beverages, and goods that I buy, eat, and use in my daily life.

Soil acidification is a major problem in Japan, associated with tea production. Organic agriculture does not solve this problem completely, but relying on organic rather than synthetic fertilizers does a great deal to address it.

[iannon]

+1 Alex!

[Chubseus]

I think a more compelling reason to go organic, at least as far as I'm concerned, is environmental impact.

This is the main reason I wish I knew more specifics about organic tea farming. Some approved organics I’ve used in the past can be pretty nasty if used incorrectly (pyrethrum, rotenone, sulfur, or copper sulfate for example). I’d like to find out what’s commonly used on organically grown tea vs conventional.