chinese and japanese, difference?
what are the major differences between chinese greens and japanese?
Re: chinese and japanese, difference?
Well the method of "cooking" is the main difference between any tea. Same goes for Chinese and Japanese.
Prior to the "invention" of sencha, Japanese tea was just imported Chinese tea, which was more like black tea. Eventually the Chinese also started making their tea "green", but still used dry woks to "roast" the tea, whereas Japanese tea is steamed.
Prior to the "invention" of sencha, Japanese tea was just imported Chinese tea, which was more like black tea. Eventually the Chinese also started making their tea "green", but still used dry woks to "roast" the tea, whereas Japanese tea is steamed.
Re: chinese and japanese, difference?
Most traditional Japanese tea styles are steamed to stop fermentation, rather than fried or baked. (Although there are exceptions).
The cost of labor in Japan is a lot higher than in China, so most Japanese tea is either low-grade and mechanically harvested (kukicha, bancha, hojicha), have cheaper non-tea mixed in, (genmaicha) or is quite expensive (better senchas, gyokuro).
Chinese teas are more likely to be hand plucked than Japanese teas. (Although there are mechanically harvested Chinese greens as well). Higher-end Chinese teas may also be hand rolled.
There are flavor differences of course, but this boils down to the tea style, I think. I'm having trouble thinking of any unifying flavor characteristic for all Chinese green teas, or all Japanese green teas...
The cost of labor in Japan is a lot higher than in China, so most Japanese tea is either low-grade and mechanically harvested (kukicha, bancha, hojicha), have cheaper non-tea mixed in, (genmaicha) or is quite expensive (better senchas, gyokuro).
Chinese teas are more likely to be hand plucked than Japanese teas. (Although there are mechanically harvested Chinese greens as well). Higher-end Chinese teas may also be hand rolled.
There are flavor differences of course, but this boils down to the tea style, I think. I'm having trouble thinking of any unifying flavor characteristic for all Chinese green teas, or all Japanese green teas...
Dec 16th, '10, 18:23
Posts: 20891
Joined: Apr 22nd, '06, 20:52
Scrolling: scrolling
Location: Back in the TeaCave atop Mt. Fuji
Re: chinese and japanese, difference?
I think the vast majority of Japanese tea is sencha, and is not low grade.mbanu wrote:The cost of labor in Japan is a lot higher than in China, so most Japanese tea is either low-grade and mechanically harvested (kukicha, bancha, hojicha), have cheaper non-tea mixed in, (genmaicha) or is quite expensive (better senchas, gyokuro).
Also Sencha is pretty cheap IMHO, most are 20-30 cents per gram for pretty good tasting sencha. Chinese teas seem more costly once you start improving the quality and grade.
Gyokuro accounts for a very small percentage of tea production, and like any tea produced anywhere, there are the good, the bad, the ugly.
Japanese and Chinese greens generally taste and look quite different from each other. This is good, there is much more variety as a result.
Re: chinese and japanese, difference?
I apologize if I've helped to spread any misinformation.
By more expensive and low grade, I mean that they cost more to make, so they tend to sell for more before retail. I suppose in practice the price to the consumer is not that much more. The harvesting is frequently mechanized, which reduces the plucking standard.
Some context:
The Sri Lankan tea board has the latest auction averages from Colombo for high-grown orthodox tea, at 383.27 Sri Lankan rupees per kilogram, or around $3.45/kg. Kenya doesn't really make much Orthodox tea, but the East African Traders Association auction averages for their best-quality Kenyan Broken Pekoe 1 CTC was $3.47/kg. The average price for North Indian teas (CTC & Orthodox average) was 116.60 Indian rupees per kilogram, or $2.57/kg. Vietnamese tea reached a record high this year at $1,340/ton or $1.47/kg. According to China Daily, in 2008, China exported 297,000 tons of tea for 4.77 billion yuan, which averages out to $2.65/kg.
I doubt a Japanese tea farmer could make back their cost of production at these kinds of prices if they hand-picked and processed their teas. So most if not all mechanically harvest their teas which, due to the limitations of tea harvesting technology, requires some compromise when it comes to quality.
It's hard to find information on average prices for Japanese teas, but the wholesale exporter Kichoen charges 2000 yen per kilo for their sencha (10-25kg min), or around $23.83/kg. Even assuming markups, this price suggests to me that the tea is costing them more.
By more expensive and low grade, I mean that they cost more to make, so they tend to sell for more before retail. I suppose in practice the price to the consumer is not that much more. The harvesting is frequently mechanized, which reduces the plucking standard.
Some context:
The Sri Lankan tea board has the latest auction averages from Colombo for high-grown orthodox tea, at 383.27 Sri Lankan rupees per kilogram, or around $3.45/kg. Kenya doesn't really make much Orthodox tea, but the East African Traders Association auction averages for their best-quality Kenyan Broken Pekoe 1 CTC was $3.47/kg. The average price for North Indian teas (CTC & Orthodox average) was 116.60 Indian rupees per kilogram, or $2.57/kg. Vietnamese tea reached a record high this year at $1,340/ton or $1.47/kg. According to China Daily, in 2008, China exported 297,000 tons of tea for 4.77 billion yuan, which averages out to $2.65/kg.
I doubt a Japanese tea farmer could make back their cost of production at these kinds of prices if they hand-picked and processed their teas. So most if not all mechanically harvest their teas which, due to the limitations of tea harvesting technology, requires some compromise when it comes to quality.
It's hard to find information on average prices for Japanese teas, but the wholesale exporter Kichoen charges 2000 yen per kilo for their sencha (10-25kg min), or around $23.83/kg. Even assuming markups, this price suggests to me that the tea is costing them more.
Re: chinese and japanese, difference?
These prices are for low grade, machine harvested and machine processed black teas that are mainly sold to the end consumer in cheap teabags or bottles of ready to drink iced tea. So these prices have almost nothing to do with the type of tea being discussed.mbanu wrote: Some context:
The Sri Lankan tea board has the latest auction averages from Colombo for high-grown orthodox tea, at 383.27 Sri Lankan rupees per kilogram, or around $3.45/kg. Kenya doesn't really make much Orthodox tea, but the East African Traders Association auction averages for their best-quality Kenyan Broken Pekoe 1 CTC was $3.47/kg. The average price for North Indian teas (CTC & Orthodox average) was 116.60 Indian rupees per kilogram, or $2.57/kg. Vietnamese tea reached a record high this year at $1,340/ton or $1.47/kg. According to China Daily, in 2008, China exported 297,000 tons of tea for 4.77 billion yuan, which averages out to $2.65/kg.
Dec 17th, '10, 00:34
Posts: 20891
Joined: Apr 22nd, '06, 20:52
Scrolling: scrolling
Location: Back in the TeaCave atop Mt. Fuji
Re: chinese and japanese, difference?
I apologize for anything I've said that was off-topic. I was under the impression that there wasn't anything in green tea manufacture that made it inherently more or less expensive than black tea manufacture, but that for both the price would be different depending on what was mechanized, the plucking standard, and the cost of living/wage costs of the area... I may be mistaken on this, though. Any additional information would be quite helpful!
The Sri Lankan price is for high-grown orthodox tea. (Source: Sri Lanka Tea Board. The average high-grown price has gone up for December to 388.38 Sri Lankan rupees per kg, or $3.49/kg). I'm still learning, but I had thought that Sri Lankan high-grown orthodox was usually considered to be of a fine quality?
The prices listed for China and Vietnam (both primarily green tea producers) are averages, which I imagine includes both low-grade and high-grade teas. I suppose that if the majority of tea produced is low grade, that will pull down the price... My understanding of the original poster is that he was asking about the difference between Chinese and Japanese teas in general, rather than high quality Chinese teas vs. high quality Japanese teas.
Admittedly, my understanding of the situation may be mistaken. Perhaps Japanese teas bought by the chest aren't actually more expensive than Chinese teas of an equivalent grade. I hear that many of the highest grades of Chinese tea never leave China, simply because foreigners aren't willing to pay as much as the locals.
On the other hand, I've heard that hand-plucking and hand-rolling are both fairly rare in Japan, having been replaced with pure mechanical harvesting or shear harvesting, and machine rolling, due to the comparatively high wages. (Is this incorrect?) While it is quite possible to make a good quality tea with machine rolling, maintaining a quality plucking standard is very challenging without hand plucking.
That's not to say that Japanese tea is not worth bothering with; while stemmy tea has traditionally been viewed as low quality, tea stems are lower in caffeine than the leaves, which make teas like kukicha and hojicha wonderful lower-caffeine options for those who don't care for most herbal teas and are wary about artificial decaffeination. Japan has fairly strict labor and environmental laws, which I've heard are consistently enforced, which might reassure those who are wary of China's sometimes less-than-ideal track record. The quality of Japanese tea mechanization is constantly improving, and if anyone will finally solve the issue of maintaining a high-quality plucking standard during mechanization, it will be them. Plus, the Japanese tea ceremony is not the same with Chinese tea.
The Sri Lankan price is for high-grown orthodox tea. (Source: Sri Lanka Tea Board. The average high-grown price has gone up for December to 388.38 Sri Lankan rupees per kg, or $3.49/kg). I'm still learning, but I had thought that Sri Lankan high-grown orthodox was usually considered to be of a fine quality?
The prices listed for China and Vietnam (both primarily green tea producers) are averages, which I imagine includes both low-grade and high-grade teas. I suppose that if the majority of tea produced is low grade, that will pull down the price... My understanding of the original poster is that he was asking about the difference between Chinese and Japanese teas in general, rather than high quality Chinese teas vs. high quality Japanese teas.
Admittedly, my understanding of the situation may be mistaken. Perhaps Japanese teas bought by the chest aren't actually more expensive than Chinese teas of an equivalent grade. I hear that many of the highest grades of Chinese tea never leave China, simply because foreigners aren't willing to pay as much as the locals.
On the other hand, I've heard that hand-plucking and hand-rolling are both fairly rare in Japan, having been replaced with pure mechanical harvesting or shear harvesting, and machine rolling, due to the comparatively high wages. (Is this incorrect?) While it is quite possible to make a good quality tea with machine rolling, maintaining a quality plucking standard is very challenging without hand plucking.
That's not to say that Japanese tea is not worth bothering with; while stemmy tea has traditionally been viewed as low quality, tea stems are lower in caffeine than the leaves, which make teas like kukicha and hojicha wonderful lower-caffeine options for those who don't care for most herbal teas and are wary about artificial decaffeination. Japan has fairly strict labor and environmental laws, which I've heard are consistently enforced, which might reassure those who are wary of China's sometimes less-than-ideal track record. The quality of Japanese tea mechanization is constantly improving, and if anyone will finally solve the issue of maintaining a high-quality plucking standard during mechanization, it will be them. Plus, the Japanese tea ceremony is not the same with Chinese tea.