Steeping time and temperature. Please help!!!

[Mo the leftfoot]

Hello folks,

I have a question concerning the steeping time and temperature. On many websites you get instructions to "the perfect cup of tea"and it´s allways the same - 180 degree F and 2-4 minutes.
But I had teas, like a wonderfull earliest Longjing (26€ a 100g), and in my eyes it´s better to give the tea a death with dignity in the toilet rarther then to treat it like that. The best results with this tea I got at 3 Minutes - 150 degrees.

On the other hand I had cheap Senchas from Japan and China where it just didn´t matter if I used 150 or 200 degrees - because of the lack of essential oils they tasted just the same at any degree. Only the bitterness and astringency changed.

Buy the way I always use 5,5 grams on a pint of water and steep it all at once - just one big infusion, not like the chinese do it. Works best for me.

Some time ago I read something about temperatures and that the polyphenols dissolve at 180 degrees and some amino acids at 140 degrees. Too much polyphenols and the aroma disappears completely, not enough of them and your tea lacks astringency and stuff like that, but this whole articel wasn´t that informal at all and at the end I got more questions than answers.

So here is my question to you: How do you people find out the right amount of tea to the right temperatur and steeping time?

thanks alot

[fire_snake]

I'm a tea noob, so what I'm learning from the veterans around here is this: greens do much better with lower temps. Almost always. The steeping times you can play around with. High temps to boiling might extract more flavour, but you'll get a lot more bitterness as well. I'm told that very high quality green teas *can* stand very high temps. I have yet to experience this. One also risks cooking the leaves. Maybe some Chinese greens can take the stress of higher temps - possibly Long Jing, but don't quote me on this. As far as I know, high temps to boiling are reserved for oolongs and black teas.

The interesting part is, there's quite a range of "lower" temps below boiling. This is where experimentation comes in.

Apropos, this gives me chance to perhaps extend your questions and ask the following: do we use water that has already boiled and allow it to cool down, or do we not let the water get to boiling? Boiled water that has cooled to a specific temp has a different character than water that has been warmed up to a specific temp.

[Chip]

There is no one answer, no general rule of thumb, to the OP's question. Some greens require ultra cool 100-140* F while others do well 140-160* and others do well 160-180*, etc. Some greens will have a narrow range of as few as 2-5* where we find the "sweet spot" but the sweet spot can vary due to other factors including personal taste, water quality, brewing vessel, time brewed and certainly the tea itself!

Eventually many of these things become somewhat intuitive.

A general rule of thumb that I will stand by, higher temp will bring out more aroma and bitterness with it while cooler water will bring out more sweetness and less bitterness.

Apropos, this gives me chance to perhaps extend your questions and ask the following: do we use water that has already boiled and allow it to cool down, or do we not let the water get to boiling? Boiled water that has cooled to a specific temp has a different character than water that has been warmed up to a specific temp.

Some boil and cool, some heat to the appropriate temp.

I happen to boil and cool using the teapot, cups, pitcher ... and then use the same kettle of water for 3-5 steeps for greens since it stays hot.

[Mo the leftfoot]

Hello fire snake and chip,
nice to have you in this discussion.

Apropos, this gives me chance to perhaps extend your questions and ask the following: do we use water that has already boiled and allow it to cool down, or do we not let the water get to boiling? Boiled water that has cooled to a specific temp has a different character than water that has been warmed up to a specific temp.

I´ve leared that its better to boil the water to kill all the bacteria, especially when you use tap water. It´s not just to decontaminate it but to kill unwanted flavours. So boiled water seems to have less flavour than unboiled, and that´s what we wan´t.
But I have also heard that overcooking the water isn´t good as well, for the chinese call it dead water since oxygen seems to be cooked out of the water. That´s what they say.
Personally, I think this theory is a bunch of bull since you only have to stir the water to get the oxygen back.
But overboiled water might have a slightly metallic taste (provided you use a kettle). So you should only boil it once.

I'm told that very high quality green teas *can* stand very high temps.

Might be right but sounds wrong. Preparing tea should´nt be an endurance contest for the tea. The hotter the water the more polyphenoles you get, and even the cheapest teas have those. But only the expensive stuff has the great flavour - why destroing it with high temperatures?

The interesting part is, there's quite a range of "lower" temps below boiling. This is where experimentation comes in.

You see, that´s the part that bothers me. When it comes to experimenting I go from 170 to 140 and from 1 to 4 minutes. That´s a lot of tea that goes down the drain. This is the most accurate method to get the right temp and the right time, provided I´ve chosen the right amount of tea
But it´s the most unpleasend and expensive one.

And it´s hard I can tell you...between 160 an 3 Minutes and 150 and 3 minutes are oceans of flavour. 160/3 might make the tea bitter, so you take 160/2 but comparing the flavours 160/2 is a drawback since 150/3 gets you alot more flavour. 140/4 Might be even better but who knows...my tounge is numb from astringency and I see stars and zebras in the hallway because of the toxic amount of caffein I poured into my system.

Then you watch videos of chinese guys in a tee ceremony that don´t seem to give a damn about time and temperature, sitting just there with a kettle and a cup (no timer, no thermometer), puting their leafes directly into the cup, taking a sip every five minutes and all they say about it is: you need a high quality tee and everything will be fine and easy...and you just want to go out and kill somebody, or just run till the caffein is out of your system again.

...vary due to other factors including personal taste, water quality, brewing vessel, time brewed and certainly the tea itself!

Eventually many of these things become somewhat intuitive.

That is really kind of vague. You see since every tea is different intuition might help with your stash at home you already know, but when it comes to buying new stuff, you can´t count on intuition. So you need a method.

I would be grateful if somebody could provide an accurate method that´s not that complicated and time robbing.

[Chip]

My starting point for most japanese greens such as sencha ... 0.75 - 1.25 grams per 1 ounce water. 158* in a preheated pot, making sure to smell the dry leaves warming. 40 - 90 seconds depending on the type of steaming ...

How did I do?

Chinese greens, I usually start at 160 -170* again smelling the leaves in the preheated pot. 1-2 minutes.

[iannon]

My starting point for most japanese greens such as sencha ... 0.75 - 1.25 grams per 1 ounce water. 158* in a preheated pot, making sure to smell the dry leaves warming. 40 - 90 seconds depending on the type of steaming ...

How did i do?

Chinese greens, I usually start at 160 -170* again smelling the leaves in the preheated pot. 1-2 minutes.

I am right in line with Chip on his general starting parameters. Also for Japanese greens that range he has can be dependent on the steaming level of the tea..asamushi vs fukamushi for example

[Mo the leftfoot]

Thank you for your advice Chip. You seem to get some killer Senchas. Those I get here in Germany are mostely crap or expensive beyond recognition. But Chinese ones here are quiet fine.

We seem to share the opinion that 180* is far to hot for a good tea.

@Iannon:
What exactly is a tea´s steaming level . Sorry but I´ve never heard of such a thing. I googled it but got no answer. I just don´t have a clue how that works. How do you get it?

Thanx

[AdamMY]

Thank you for your advice Chip. You seem to get some killer Senchas. Those I get here in Germany are mostely crap or expensive beyond recognition. But Chinese ones here are quiet fine.

We seem to share the opinion that 180* is far to hot for a good tea.

@Iannon:
What exactly is a tea´s steaming level . Sorry but I´ve never heard of such a thing. I googled it but got no answer. I just don´t have a clue how that works. How do you get it?

Thanx

Mo, If you can it might not be such a bad idea to possibly order directly from Japan, you often cut out a middle man or two. In regards to a steaming level, Japanese greens are steamed in their processing and regarding how much steam they were given puts them loosely into categories.

Asamushi or light steamed

Chumushi or mid steamed

Fukamushi or heavy steamed

This also alters how broken up the leaves appear to be, as the steaming breaks down cell walls slightly often resulting in a more broken up leaf. Though the heavier the steaming often the greener the color. In the end your tastes will likely determine which steaming level you prefer, although its good to have some of each on hand.

[debunix]

I would be grateful if somebody could provide an accurate method that´s not that complicated and time robbing.

Can't think of any one size fits all teas or tea drinkers. But I do have some suggestions....

Get a small gaiwan, and 'audition' your new teas in very small quantities, so you're not wasting many grams of fine tea on the practice brewing. Pour out a sip or two of tea sooner than you think the tea will be ready, to see how it is progressing during the steep. Using a tiny amount of tea into a larger cup, the tea will be cool enough to drink almost instantly, so you can check the tea's progress every 15-20 seconds if you like. Keep a detailed notebook/spreadsheet/tea diary of some kind, and start out new teas with time/temp profiles of similar teas that you've liked.

That should cut down on the wastage.