Zhuni vs Shudei

[time]

Hi, guys.

Do you know the difference between Zhuni and the Japanese version of Zhuni (called Shudei)?

Written is the same: 朱泥. (In Japanese, they use the same Chinese characters for it. Shudei is just´on´-sound of the Chinese sounds.)

What is the difference in term of clay content? Density, iron, porosity etc?

A zhuni yixing chahu (modern zhuni, hongni as well) enhances the smell of the tea, and the smell remains in the teapot after brewing. A shudei tokoname kyusu, however, doesn´t smell much after serveral brewing.

Thanks!

[Chasm]

I believe Hojo at Hojo teas has some information on the topic. I'm too new to be allowed to post a link.

Hojo's information is to the best of his understanding, and I don't have reason to suspect it. But short of seeing full chemical analysis and crystallographic workup, I don't quite believe any of the various claims about what clay makeup does what.

But I like reading the theories. They give me ideas for my own experimentation in finding what works for me. My delicate palate and digestion lead to some rather eccentric tea practices by expert standards, but hey, they make me healthier and taste great on top of it.

[Chasm]

I forgot to mention: There may be a substantial difference between old shudei and modern shudei.

[David R.]

I might be wrong, but I suspect that there are more than one type of modern zhuni depending on the composition, sieving, baking, etc, leading to different results. If it is true for chinese clay, it must be the same for the japanese also.

The teapot's form, thickness, pouring capacity, also have consequences on the final result.

So it might be difficult to give a straight answer to your question. But I can be wrong.

[wyardley]

There is also a Chaozhou "zhuni", which is not the same as Yixing zhuni, and which is actually usually (always?) not red once fired. I think it fires to a black or dark brown color.

[Tead Off]

There is also a Chaozhou "zhuni", which is not the same as Yixing zhuni, and which is actually usually (always?) not red once fired. I think it fires to a black or dark brown color.

I was not aware of this. I have a few CZ pots and none are black or dark brown. In fact, doesn't Imen have zhuni pots that are red?

[wyardley]

There is also a Chaozhou "zhuni", which is not the same as Yixing zhuni, and which is actually usually (always?) not red once fired. I think it fires to a black or dark brown color.

I was not aware of this. I have a few CZ pots and none are black or dark brown. In fact, doesn't Imen have zhuni pots that are red?

Again, I don't know if it's always a dark color once fired, but it is sometimes.

Looks kind of like this:
http://tea-obsession.blogspot.com/2008/12/cute-pot.html
Black under certain light, but more brownish under direct sunlight.

She does mention here that the locals call the one that fires dark red "zhuni" as well, so perhaps it's the same thing.
http://www.teahabitat.com/store/index.p ... e=clayPots

[MarshalN]

Japanese shudei from tokoname is quite dense, denser than even Yixing zhuni. It's quite easily identifiable if you have them next to each other -- you can't mistake a tokoname for a yixing, not just because of style or construction, but because of the clay itself.

Most "zhuni" pots you see these days aren't really zhuni at all, but some form of hongni.

Chaozhou zhuni does fire to a red, with the inside of the pot usually a light orangy colour rather than red with a porous texture, while the exterior is a nice, if slightly dull, vermillion.

[time]

Thanks MarshalN.

Great info.
May agree that shudei is denser than any yixing clays.
Is that the reason tokoname clasy (shudei etc.) are more suitable for green tea than yixing? Any big differences between green tea in a yixing (zhuni, hongni (red clay) etc.) and a red tokoname clay(shudei etc.)?