User avatar
Mar 9th, '12, 20:49
Posts: 505
Joined: Oct 6th, '11, 23:01
Location: Hong Kong, next China

Three types of Zhuni?

by needaTEAcher » Mar 9th, '12, 20:49

I'm zhuni hunting. My teacher told me there are three types of zhuni, but he only had an example of one type, and he had trouble explaining the others to me (language barrier issues).

I have seen zhuni that is a fiery orange-red, and looks like a subset of hongni.
I have seen zhuni that is more of a dark brown, and looks like a type of zinni almost.

What is the third like? Photos?

What are the different properties of all three?

Thanks!

User avatar
Mar 9th, '12, 23:41
Posts: 1899
Joined: Mar 22nd, '08, 22:26
Location: Shanghai

Re: Three types of Zhuni?

by chrl42 » Mar 9th, '12, 23:41

Zhaozhuang, Xiaomeiyao and Huanglongshan Zhuni.

Zhaozhuang is traditional Zhuni from Ming dynasty, the most famous one, there are 2 areas where ZZ zhuni came from (not anymore). Yixing potters used up this special clay during Qing dynasty, during ROC it already became extinct.

Xiaomeiyao mine was found in 50's, but started using since 80's because Factory1 didn't make Zhuni pots. Those Zhuni pots were made for Taiwan, they were not from F1.

Huanglongshan Zhuni doesn't have representive mine, there are rather small-sized numbers are many. So it doesn't have characteristics what you can call as 'Huanglongshan Zhuni's'

User avatar
Mar 10th, '12, 07:20
Posts: 2817
Joined: Oct 16th, '08, 21:01
Scrolling: scrolling
Location: Arlington, VA
Contact: Drax

Re: Three types of Zhuni?

by Drax » Mar 10th, '12, 07:20

chrl42 wrote:Zhaozhuang is traditional Zhuni from Ming dynasty, the most famous one, there are 2 areas where ZZ zhuni came from (not anymore). Yixing potters used up this special clay during Qing dynasty, during ROC it already became extinct.

Xiaomeiyao mine was found in 50's, but started using since 80's because Factory1 didn't make Zhuni pots. Those Zhuni pots were made for Taiwan, they were not from F1.
So there's roughly a 30 year gap of "real" zhuni? Or were other places using the ore found in the xiaomeiyao mine?

This information means that "early ROC zhuni" would be quite rare, or impossible, right? Or did I misunderstand?

User avatar
Mar 10th, '12, 20:13
Posts: 1437
Joined: Jul 21st, '10, 02:25
Location: Oz

Re: Three types of Zhuni?

by bagua7 » Mar 10th, '12, 20:13

chrl42,

Would the following pot belong to the Zhaozhuang category?

Image

Image

Cheers.

User avatar
Mar 11th, '12, 10:28
Posts: 1899
Joined: Mar 22nd, '08, 22:26
Location: Shanghai

Re: Three types of Zhuni?

by chrl42 » Mar 11th, '12, 10:28

needaTEAcher wrote:I'm zhuni hunting. My teacher told me there are three types of zhuni, but he only had an example of one type, and he had trouble explaining the others to me (language barrier issues).

I have seen zhuni that is a fiery orange-red, and looks like a subset of hongni.
I have seen zhuni that is more of a dark brown, and looks like a type of zinni almost.

What is the third like? Photos?

What are the different properties of all three?

Thanks!
from what I know, different color comes from temperature of firing, keeping time of processed clay and other issues. color itself doesn't demonstrate the kind of clay too much.

West Zhaozhuang Zhuni of Qing-ROC has bright orange color and heavy, that's all I can tell.

User avatar
Mar 11th, '12, 10:32
Posts: 1899
Joined: Mar 22nd, '08, 22:26
Location: Shanghai

Re: Three types of Zhuni?

by chrl42 » Mar 11th, '12, 10:32

Drax wrote:
chrl42 wrote:Zhaozhuang is traditional Zhuni from Ming dynasty, the most famous one, there are 2 areas where ZZ zhuni came from (not anymore). Yixing potters used up this special clay during Qing dynasty, during ROC it already became extinct.

Xiaomeiyao mine was found in 50's, but started using since 80's because Factory1 didn't make Zhuni pots. Those Zhuni pots were made for Taiwan, they were not from F1.
So there's roughly a 30 year gap of "real" zhuni? Or were other places using the ore found in the xiaomeiyao mine?

This information means that "early ROC zhuni" would be quite rare, or impossible, right? Or did I misunderstand?
Xiaomeiyao Zhuni has roughly more than 3 places,

early ROC Zhuni - which is Zhaozhuang Zhuni....the last news I heard was it was found as bunches in 92 or so. The places became farm or pond. Other than that, you shouldn't trust too much when they say 'Zhaozhuang Zhuni'.

User avatar
Mar 16th, '12, 04:33
Posts: 505
Joined: Oct 6th, '11, 23:01
Location: Hong Kong, next China

Re: Three types of Zhuni?

by needaTEAcher » Mar 16th, '12, 04:33

I've seen some photos of older, super high-end pots, and seen one in real life, that was BRIGHT orange/red on the outside, and deeper glowy, but with a greyish inside. Anyone catch me up to speed on this type?

User avatar
Mar 16th, '12, 13:26
Vendor Member
Posts: 2009
Joined: Apr 4th, '06, 15:07
Location: NYC
Contact: TIM

Re: Three types of Zhuni?

by TIM » Mar 16th, '12, 13:26

Perhaps Chri could help me ID these?

http://themandarinstea.blogspot.com/200 ... overs.html

Image

User avatar
Mar 16th, '12, 23:36
Posts: 1899
Joined: Mar 22nd, '08, 22:26
Location: Shanghai

Re: Three types of Zhuni?

by chrl42 » Mar 16th, '12, 23:36

color and long 'lip' of lid reminds me of late-Qing~ROC

has a picture of inside-pot and chop? (bigger the better)

User avatar
Mar 16th, '12, 23:47
Posts: 1899
Joined: Mar 22nd, '08, 22:26
Location: Shanghai

Re: Three types of Zhuni?

by chrl42 » Mar 16th, '12, 23:47

needaTEAcher wrote:I've seen some photos of older, super high-end pots, and seen one in real life, that was BRIGHT orange/red on the outside, and deeper glowy, but with a greyish inside. Anyone catch me up to speed on this type?
grey-ish inside could a sign of color-change by kiln. Late-Qing~ROC had those. A sign of high-fire, also sometimes brings bubbles on the surface...

or it could zini pot touched with hongni powder too..situation could vary a lot...

User avatar
Mar 17th, '12, 04:38
Posts: 505
Joined: Oct 6th, '11, 23:01
Location: Hong Kong, next China

Re: Three types of Zhuni?

by needaTEAcher » Mar 17th, '12, 04:38

I thought the grey meant high fire. The pot in particular that I'm thinking about is def legit. So isn't high firing kind of not great for Zisha pots? Doesn't the higher fire significantly decrease the porousness (sp?) and thus the ability to form a solid patina? Why are zhuni pots with the high fire a good thing?

Thanks!

User avatar
Mar 17th, '12, 06:14
Posts: 1899
Joined: Mar 22nd, '08, 22:26
Location: Shanghai

Re: Three types of Zhuni?

by chrl42 » Mar 17th, '12, 06:14

needaTEAcher wrote:I thought the grey meant high fire. The pot in particular that I'm thinking about is def legit. So isn't high firing kind of not great for Zisha pots? Doesn't the higher fire significantly decrease the porousness (sp?) and thus the ability to form a solid patina? Why are zhuni pots with the high fire a good thing?

Thanks!
I dunno if I quite got your meaning. Late-Qing had many of those pots..the reason I think was those Zhunis were very delicate-processed clays, thus it get crystallized at low temperature. But during old-time controlling temperature wasn't easy as nowadays.

Relatively high temp is good for pronounced color but too high temp will cause irregular coloring which is kiln-color-change..

User avatar
Mar 20th, '12, 15:42
Vendor Member
Posts: 2009
Joined: Apr 4th, '06, 15:07
Location: NYC
Contact: TIM

Re: Three types of Zhuni?

by TIM » Mar 20th, '12, 15:42

chrl42 wrote:color and long 'lip' of lid reminds me of late-Qing~ROC
has a picture of inside-pot and chop? (bigger the better)
Will this works Chrl42?
Image

User avatar
Mar 21st, '12, 10:08
Posts: 1082
Joined: Oct 6th, '09, 08:08
Location: France
Contact: David R.

Re: Three types of Zhuni?

by David R. » Mar 21st, '12, 10:08

OMG, what a gorgeous skin !

User avatar
Mar 21st, '12, 13:38
Vendor Member
Posts: 2009
Joined: Apr 4th, '06, 15:07
Location: NYC
Contact: TIM

Re: Three types of Zhuni?

by TIM » Mar 21st, '12, 13:38

David R. wrote:OMG, what a gorgeous skin !
Thanks David. They call it the muscle marks :lol:

+ Post Reply